Dm-4800 in new studio

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DM-4800
OK, not new to the studio workflow but very new to the DM series of mixing consoles. Recently ran into a fella that wanted to just recoup some of the cash he recently spent on gear and gave me a deal I couldn’t refuse. $1200 for a DM-4800 in great working condition (FireWire, Adat and TDIF Expansion Card, Meter Bridge included) and since I agreed to pick it all up, he also threw in his Argosy 90 Series desk!! Yeah... It was a steal...

Anyway, I had been in the market for a new digital desk because I’m relocating to larger dedicated studio space and was leaning really hard toward the Allen and Heath QU-32C but because I use a lot of outboard gear, I decided I’d be better off going with something that had inserts on every channel therefore solving my issue of 48v Phantom Power routing issues via my patchbay. I got the channel routing understanding under my belt now as I’ve been just figuring my desk out every other day about 2hrs at a time. I must say, once you understand what you’re looking it? It really does make a lot of sense. Using a friend of mine’s QU, I was able to see hands on the differences and similarities. Like math, all knowledge applies but when dealing with the DM-4800, you’re just dealing with more variety in said math.

Anyway, all that to ask three questions.

1: What is the best way, internal routing wise, to attain direct monitoring (while streaming the music tracks from the DAW) giving my artists 0 latency? Pretty sure I know the answer but I’d rather confirm or be told otherwise.

2: Are the inserts hardware only or can I say, send an audio track from my DAW to a fader for external mixing and processing and utilize outboard gear on that channel via the 1/4” insert? Would be cool if I could and if I could, what route would I go doing so? (Easy on the analog desks I’ve worked on but not so sure about the DM series)

3: I want to implement the Behringer P16-I and P16-M system into my studio making it simple for my artist to control their own audio mix and talkback volume. I was thinking I would just send 16ch of Adat via my Adat Expansion Card and onboard Adat connections to the P16-I for 16ch of Audio to a P16-M but this is a two part question.

A: Considering latency issues, what would you suggest for routing to the P16 of all of the available outputs on board (remember I have DB25 connections as well as ADAT that can all be sent to the Behringer via analog or Adat)?? I would like to utilize all 16ch on the P16.

B: what would be the best way you’d suggest I route a Talkback mic to the P16 system? Is the DM-4800’s onboard Talkback re-routable to a DAW channel so it could be sent to say, channel 16 on the P16? Or is it onboard only and only heard through the board’s physical outputs?

Hopefully you guys could give me some much needed insight so I’m not spending too much time going by manual and trial and error...

Thanks in advance!!

-Surge
 
PS, I did follow the sticky on setting up my computer regarding using a DAW and my DM but I had already taken these steps beforehand. However, I used the sticky as a checklist regardless.

I run Cubase 5 (will be 9.5 in less than 2mos) and ProTools 12. I am a Cubase guy and never upgraded because it just worked. It’s very much time for an upgrade. I have ProTools because that’s what they used at school and everyone always brings me projects in PT format to mix. Not really a fan but I know both programs very well. I’ve been Engineering sessions and live audio for about 14years now (I’m 33) but just decided to go to school and get a degree in what I’m already doing. I still have a couple semesters left.

I have at my disposal my Motu 896 MKIII and I use my Focusrite Octopre MKII Dynamic as a dedicated preamp for Toms, OVRHeads, HiHat and Kick drum micing. Little thing excels at this task.

Monitoring system is KRK VXT8 And Dynaudio BM6A...
If any of that is relevant...
 
Hello @ThaSurgeonGeneral . I too am a little surprised that at least one of the gurus hasn't chimed in yet. Cut them a little slack. Understandably, they must be caught up in the Holiday fervor. Unfortunately, I'm a DM newcomer myself and am in no position to be of much assistance. Wish I could do more. I am still trying to wrap my head around the incredible deal that you landed. Best of luck in 2018! Peter
 
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Yeah, guess that was a little rude of me. Wasn’t intentional. Anyway, I won’t be in my new space for another few weeks so, no huge rush. Would just like all of this figured out beforehand as my upcoming projects are drawing near.
 
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Hi Surge, hopefully this wil help:
@1: On the Output Slot page, send your channel inputs directly to DAW through the FW connection. On another layer's channels, have your DAW playback previously recorded tracks. Set monitoring of realtime recording tracks OFF in your DAW. Your DAW takes care of latency issues and the artists listen in real time to themselves.

@2: The DM's hardware inserts are only used for analog send/return or direct out after the gain stage of each input channel. Still you can do what you want but it'll take regular hardware inputs and outputs to go out and back in to the desk.

@3A: Sure, just use the mixer's buses and send 16 of them as inputs to the P16. On the ouput assign part of the mixer you can easily select to which bus each channel should route. Latency should not be an issue: real time signals go only through the desk and DAW signals will be compensated for by the DAW. As said above, just don't monitor real time signals through the DAW.

@3B: Talkback to the P16 will cost you a channel. IIRC, the desk's talkback mic cannot be freely routed (and you wouldn't want to send it to the DAW anyway?).
 
I like solution 1, makes perfect sense, cant exactly figure why I didn’t think of that? Hahahaha... I could then send that out via tdif (db25) or up to 16 channels of ADAT right? Or something like that, I’ll figure that much out. Which would answer the P16 question...

Got it, on the insert but... That would have been cool.

As for why I’d want to send the Talkback mic to the daw, routing wise, when I’m working from the other studio using an SSL 900 series console, passing Talkback back into the DAW makes it really easy to assign Talkback to a channel and thereby sending Talkback to all of my P16’s. Route the Talkback through channel 24, create a Talkback track in my daw listening to channel 24, Send Talkback to P16 channel 16 only. Send all other channels to other channels of the P16 accordingly. This keeps the Talkback button on board the SSL usable, it doesn’t play backthrough the control Room and you can now control the volume, EQ and panning of the Talkback in your ears from each individual P16. Works out to be very convenient.

I appreciate the reply, I’ll be working on this ASAP.
 
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DM-4800 question. Sorry if I'm posting in the wrong location. OK, I have the "studio" feed going out to speakers in the large room where the band is located. Talkback goes out too when I press the Studio Talkback speaker. Question: Is there a way to easily mute the mics from going back to the studio but till have the talkback function?
 
On the question of getting talkback mic back into the DAW. I have assigned the talkback to a buss using the OSC/COM section on the Monitor pages (alt and 3 button in screen mode selector screens). So long as the Buss channel is up and armed in the DAW (I don't send it to stereo, it's just for me making audio notes really as I am recording) all is recorded.

Sorry if this isn't what you need but it may help??

Dan
 
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Thanks, but I was trying to set it up more like our other studio that is used for TV. In that studio, when you turn on a mic, the speaker mutes so you don't get feedback but yet the talkback speaker still works.
 
Oh, yea that is a bit more complex. I don't think I ever had the DM-4800 I worked with setup like that. The Dimmer would cut out everything. Ours was wearing out on the slate and studio switches because we were pressing and un-pressing all the time with them. Never seemed to be two way. Fine when I was talking to the artist but whenever anyone in control room wanted to talk I would have to guess when they wanted to speak and listen carefully for a response from the artist.

I wonder if you could use mute groups and an external TB mic in some way? I Know you can set other pics up rather than the built in one for TalkBack but the routing in OSC/COM is limited. I'm sure I read in the manual about mute groups but I can't remember the context. This would lose you a couple of channels though.

I'll read up a bit more and let you know what I find out

Dan
 

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