Dp-24sd newb

EricAndrew

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DP-24SD
Hello Folks,

Wasn't sure exactly where to post this thread, but I am new to this forum and new to home recording in general. I am going to start with a very simple question and then go from there. Feel free to address that or throw any other tips and tricks my way.

My question is, I just received the DP24SD and am trying to get started. I have yet to get any headphones or studio monitors as i have to budget these things out. I do however have a Crate combo amp. Would it be possible to hook up to that temporarily until i get my set up, set up good and proper? My initial attempts have not been successful but as I stated I am pretty new. To round out the picture, I had my guitar going into the far right, "guitar" input, H I believe it is and a mic going into the A input and then tried form the various outputs in the input on the amp.

Thanks in advance for any advice you all might provide.
-Eric
 
Hi Eric. If the Crate has an mp3 stereo input, this should handle the line levels from the dp24 monitor outputs nicely. You might need a special cable to adapt the 2 x 1/4" jacks to a stereo 3.5mm jack. If not, a simple mono jack cable will do to get you off the ground.
Yes, the H input is correct for passive guitar pickups - there's a switch to set it to 'guitar' mode. To just hear inputs without recording anything, assign the inputs to the stereo bus. Or you can assign them to individual tracks, but you then have to 'arm' the tracks for recording by pressing the Rec buttons. The lights will flash while in this mode. They'll only stay lit if you press record, but this isn't necessary to hear the inputs. By default, all the tracks are panned centre, so even if you're using a mono cable to connect your PA, you should still be able to hear something. You'll need to turn up the track fader(s), the stereo fader, and the monitor knob.
The meters on the display indicate recording levels, so you use the trim knobs to adjust - the track faders have no effect on the recording levels; they only affect playback levels.
Not sure what you've tried and/or which bits didn't work, so keep us posted.
 
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Cheers Phil. Cool to know it should work. I am at work right now so I won't be able to try anything hands on until later but I do have some questions. So, it sounds like the "out to go from to go into the amp would be the "Stereo Out (Unbalanced)" jacks? Also, how does one, assign an input to the "stereo bus"? Also, I'm not sure what the MP3 input is, just, going off memory i believe the only input it has is the guitar amp. Sorry, i wasn't lying when i said I don't have a ton of experience with this stuff. Most of my experience with electronics has been as a videographer / cameraman, lol.
 
Long post warning... :)
Well I meant the Monitor output (jack sockets), but the Stereo output (phono sockets) would also work just to get a signal passing through the machine. If you use the stereo outputs, then the monitor level knob has no effect. The monitor system can be connected to various other signals within the machine so will be more useful in the long run.

The 'assign' system is a connection matrix which allows you to connect sources to destinations; the sources are the 8 inputs (A-H) and the destinations are the tracks (1-24) or the stereo bus (8 connections available). The signals from the inputs won't go anywhere unless you assign them. Press the Assign button and you'll see a matrix of squares/rectangles corresponding to the signal destinations. Use a combination of cursor movements, track & stereo Select buttons and input Source buttons to toggle the source letters A-H within these blocks.

I know some people glaze over when the manual is mentioned, let alone the block diagram, but would strongly recommend you photo-copy the diagram and refer to it as you explore. It's not as complex as it looks; it's not a low-level circuit diagram but a higher-level 'logical' view of the machine. Think of it as an underground railway map - we have the London tube map here but am sure you've seen others. They don't over-complicate things by being geographically accurate; they just show how the stations are connected from a logical viewpoint so you can plan your journey.

As you work through the diagram, try and identify which parts correspond to the real knobs & faders on the top panel - quite a few are only available via the screen menus. You can see the input sections at top left - only one of the eight is shown for clarity. The signal comes in on the combo jack, its level is controlled by the Trim level control (on the top panel), and it goes from left to right via an EQ block to the Assign switch. This 'switch' doesn't exist on the top panel, but is one of the matrix assignments described above. If you assign your input(s) to the stereo bus, the signal will keep going to the right. Ignore the level control for now - this also does not exist on the top panel. Keep going and the signal will go through the Pan control and end up on the vertical lines which represent the left & right stereo bus.

Follow the lines up and you'll see the stereo bus output goes to the right, through the stereo fader (which does exist) and then to the stereo output sockets. It also also goes down to the monitor select block and then to the right, via the monitor level knob to the headphone and monitor out sockets.

So hope that helps to get you started. Once you know your inputs are getting to your PA, you can then get more advanced and assign the inputs to the tracks for recording. As mentioned in the first post, you don't have to record in order to hear the signals. If you arm the tracks by pressing the Rec button, the red lights will flash and you should be able to hear the signals from the stereo or monitor outputs. Use the diagram to see which controls alter the signal levels.

The manual shows how to set up basic recording, so you can follow the signal path from the input EQ box down into the track sections on the lower-left of the diagram. The only thing to explain here is the box marked V-TRACK. This is where the multi-track recording & playback takes place; think of it as the actual tape on an old-school tape recorder. You can also see the channel fader is to the right of the V-TRACK box (i.e. the playback side) so this hopefully clarifies another common confusion in that these faders have no effect on the recorded level - only the source Trim controls do this.

Re. the PA inputs - the main input on a guitar amp may be too sensitive for the signal levels coming out of the dp24. If so, it may sound very distorted. Some PA's have an extra less sensitive input for playing other instruments or mp3 backing tracks which have higher signal levels. It may be a small 3.5mm jack, but depends on your PA model.

The only other tip for now is to reset the machine before exploring. A new machine will start up by loading the tutorial song. This contains several effects & routings etc. and if you create a new song, all these settings will carry over into the new song and may cause confusion. The easiest way to reset is via Menu, Preferences, scroll to the end to the Initialise item and press F4. This clears out the audio data and resets all the FX and assignments back to factory defaults. You can then save this as a dummy song called e.g. 'Reset' and protect it. In future, always load this song before creating a new one.

You could simply use the Menu Initialise function each time, but this also resets the global preferences such as power-off options, screen brightness etc. so you'd have to keep re-instating these manually. By simply loading a dummy song, you can ensure the machine state is exactly how you want it. For example the assignment factory defaults connect inputs A-H to tracks 1-8. If you don't want this, then change as reqd. before saving the Reset 'song'. If you use a "!" character at the start of the song name, it will always remain at the top of the song list as a reminder.

Hope this has not swamped you too much! Best of luck.
 
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Very long post, most heartily accepted and appreciated. Thank you for all the time and effort. Too bad you are across the pond or i would just hire you to come over and show me the ropes, lol. Most of what you laid out makes sense, even if i don't fully grasp it. I hadn't noticed the diagram before but it is helpful and i am familiar with a subway diagram (I used to live in Chicago) so that's a great analogy.

I realize their is a lot to this machine so i was hoping for some simple little tips and tricks to just play around with to get started and this info will help. Unfortunately, my amp doesn't have that type of input so it looks like i am going to have to splurge and get some monitors or headphones. Probably the cans because then i can practice guitar without disturbing the wife and kids too, lol.

In regards to the tutorial song. Do you recommend firing that up and playing around with that to get a little more familiar?
 
No worries Eric. The quick guide section in the manual refers to the demo song for practicing listening & mixing, but I don't think they do much with it - seems to skip straight to recording your own tracks. But it's a handy source of pre-recorded tracks so guess you can skip the parts about recording your own stuff and use theirs, so have a play. It will clarify some of the compromises between this machine and a hardware mixer, e.g. channel faders for each track are all accessible at once so you can easily adjust their relative levels in the mix, but the pan & EQ levels are only visible/adjustable for the selected track. You can see this in the Mixer screen - as you press individual track select buttons, the top-right of the screen shows the selected track and all the settings shown refer to that track.
Did you try the amp input and does it distort? If you don't get any sound at all then something else is not set correctly. Have you got any old earphones from a radio or cd player? These will work as temporary monitors if you get a suitable cable to convert the 3.5mm plug into a pair of phonos or 1/4" jacks.
 
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No i haven't have had a chance to check it, might be able to try after the 9-5, but I didn't get any sound at all, so I am guessing maybe i just didn't have the inputs assigned correctly or something. The only head phones i have at all at the moment are ear buds, unfortunately. I apologize, what is meant by phonos? is that the same thing as a quarter inch?
 
Ear buds are what I meant, sorry. They usually have a small 3.5mm diameter stereo jack plug. Phonos are cinch or rca plugs - some terminology differences over here maybe?! The monitor outputs on the dp24 need 1/4" (6.5mm) diameter plugs. The stereo outputs use phono/cinch plugs. So if you can get an adapter for either of these you could use your earbuds for now.
 
Just realised I'm over-complicating this - if you're going to use ear buds, then a simple 3.5mm to 1/4" stereo adapter would work, and you plug it into the headphone socket at the front of the machine - doh!
Make sure you get a stereo adapter as shown on the right of this photo.JackAdapters.jpg
 
Yea, i ordered some headphones anyway. Hopefully I find the time to mess with it all soon.
 
All right Phillip. I was able to make all that work, including using the amp as a monitor. Thank you for the assistance. I still haven't gotten a chance to mess with it too much. I was wondering if you knew what the easiest way was to record something, then record the next bit while listening to the first track as playback?
 
Example to record 1st pass onto track 1:
  • Assign reqd. source/input to track 1.
  • Press Rec button on track 1 to arm it for recording. Red light should flash.
  • Adjust source trim knob for reqd recording level as shown on meters in home screen. Note the track faders have no effect on recording levels.
  • Can hear/monitor what you're about to record in the headphones by increasing track 1 fader, stereo fader and the monitor level knob. None of these alter the recording level.
  • Confirm position counter is at zero (press Rew button if not), then press Record button to start recording. You don't need to press Record & Play simultaneously as with some other recorders.
  • Press Stop when finished.
  • Press Rec on track 1 to disarm it, or get into the habit of pressing Rec Safe to disarm all tracks.

Record 2nd pass to track 2:
  • Assign reqd. source/input to track 2
  • Press Rec button on track 2 to arm it for recording. Red light should flash.
  • Adjust source trim knob for reqd recording level as shown on meters in home screen.
  • Can hear/monitor what you're about to record in the headphones by increasing track 2 fader, stereo fader and the monitor level knob.
  • Confirm playback level for track 1 by pressing Play and adjusting track 1 fader as reqd. Press Stop.
  • Confirm position counter is at zero (press Rew button if not) Press Record button to start recording. Fader 1 controls the monitoring level of the original recording, fader 2 controls the monitoring level of the new recording. You can twiddle these at will during the recording - they have no effect on the recorded levels. The only controls which do this are the source trim knobs.
  • Press Stop when finished.
  • Press Rec on track 2 (or Rec Safe) to disarm it.
Can now rewind and playback both tracks to see how it sounds. Balance the levels with the track faders.
If you're doing lots of overdubs, you can assign the same source to multiple tracks so you don't have to keep revisiting the Assign screen. It will only record onto the track(s) which are armed.
 
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Phil, I've had my DP24 for awhile now, but still read most posts because I usually learn something new. In your excellent replies you mentioned Rec Safe a couple of times to disarm tracks. Is this a button on the machine? I don't see anything like that on my DP24.
 
It must be a new feature on the sd models - it's a dedicated button on the 24SD and 32SD.... but on the bright side, you've got midi sync which I'm sure a few people would trade for this 'convenience' button :)
Agree with comment re. reading posts, there's always a new angle or tip to pick up. Am still learning myself!
Season's greetings.
 
Greetings Phil. I have a new newbie question. I jut got a laptop with the goal of it becoming part of my toolbox. Now with the SD card on the DP24SD, do you see any particular advantage to having a Hardware interface or would i simply be able to swap the card back and forth to improt export tracks / songs, etc. I know kind of an open ended question, but any insight is appreciated.
 
Hello Eric. I'm sure Phil has some great insight, but I'd like to chime in if I can. I also have the DP24SD and it's great for my needs. But occasionally, I also use a laptop. Long before I purchased the DP24, I'd been using Audacity on my laptop. Mostly for converting vinyl records into MP3 files (along with a lot of scratch & noise removal). And I use it to edit a radio program that I host live but gets rebroadcast. Audacity is great for that and other things, and Audacity is free. So, after laying down tracks on the DP24, I frequently will export from the Tascam to my laptop for further tweaking using Audacity, then import the tracks back to the Tascam. I've used both the USB connection with my laptop & I've also just taken the SD card out of the Tascam and put it in the laptop. My laptop is not dedicated to recording, I use it for my day job, so it's in a different room. If it was dedicated to recording, I'd probably just use the USB connection but I find just popping the SD card out works great too. The only drawback to popping the SD card in and out is that I always follow the manuals recommendations and turn off the DP24 before removing or inserting the SD card. Actually this is no big deal except that it takes a little time to power off and on. However, one big advantage to popping the SD card into my laptop is the ease at which I can backup an entire project using Windows Explorer. I just locate the song's folder on the SD card and drag and drop it to my laptop's hard drive. Now the project is backed up. Fortunately, I've never had an SD card go bad, but if it should, I can restore everything from my laptop onto a new SD card.
 
Hi Eric. Good advice from GibsonF5, especially re. backing up! Note the difference between backup/restore and transferring track wave files for further processing - you must use the Export/Import functions for the latter.

Would also recommend using the USB link if practical. If you get into the habit of pulling the card out, it's an accident waiting to happen. I have no proof but would not be surprised if some of the weird behaviour reported is due to cards being corrupted by removing them while the power is on. It also saves wear & tear on the sd-card socket - some reports suggest that was a weak point in the design but haven't seen any stats to confirm this.

I too had a recording/mixing setup before buying the dp machine, but I use it as an on-location recorder and load backing tracks etc. from the computer and setup the songs before leaving, then transfer the track files to the home-based gear for processing afterwards.

Once you start using a computer in the workflow, it's a difficult choice as to how far you go. It is a lot easier editing waveforms in a DAW and as GibsonF5 says, you can always transfer the edited files back to the dp24 for mixing and processing... but once you see the power of DAWs you may decide it's easier to stay on the computer. The trade-off is that it's not hands-on unless you get a hardware controller for the computer. Some people don't mind using mice & qwerty keyboards (not me!!) and you could argue the dp24 controls are also limited in that there is only one set of EQ/Pan/Send knobs to share, but at least there's a physical fader for each track.
 
Thank you gentleman for the feedback. I would like to learn first on the traditional hardware (dp24) and then eventually use the computer to enhance those skills etc. It just makes sense to me. Like when I started using photoshop after i took photography classes using real film some of the in computer fx made more sense to me, once I knew their real world counterparts. Having said all that. When you say using the USB link, are we talking going straight from the dp24 to the computer via a USB cable?
 
"When you say using the USB link, are we talking going straight from the dp24 to the computer via a USB cable?"

Yep. That's exactly what he is referring to. ; - )
 

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