DP-32sd: Source Fader Level

[Doodle46]

Q. When setting the nominated Track Fader Level, is it also necessary to set the Mono (Source) Fader Level? It’s been my experience that, while recording, the Mono (Source) Fader Level becomes irrelevant. Moving it does not change the audio level at all. I just want to be sure I am on the right track. (no pun intended)

 

[Matt B]

If I understand the anatomy correctly, the source fader (twisty knob at the top) adjusts the level to the recorder and to the track fader (slidey thing at the bottom). Then the track fader controls the level of the track, recording or playing, to the bus.

No matter where the track fader is set, the recording level will be determined by the source fader. You can set the track fader wherever you like and the recording from source to track will not be affected. The track fader will control the level when recording from track to master.

I think...

My experience is different from yours, if we are using the same terms. Adjusting the source fader will cause the recorded track to be too quiet, or so loud it distorts.

 

[Doodle46]

I’m sorry Matt B, if my post was confusing. I edited it for (hopefully) better clarity. I should have said “Mono (Source) Faders.” If I say only Mono Fader, then it could be any one of 8 Mono Faders. I’m refering to the Fader that coincides with designated Source: A B C D E F G
I wasn’t referring to the Trim Knobs.
EXAMPLE:
• Source C (3)
• Mono Fader 3
• Nominated Track 9/10
At least, that’s how I see it, and do it.
Thank you for your input.

 

[David Porter]

In the sense that I think you mean... the "mono faders" do not "coincide" with inputs A-H. They do not have a direct relationship.

So....: When setting the nominated Track Fader Level, is it also necessary to set the Mono (Source) Fader Level?

The answer to this is: no

Hence, you are correct when saying: while recording, the Mono (Source) Fader Level becomes irrelevant. Moving it does not change the audio level at all.

This is because - it is not a "source" fader at all. Repeating what I said above for clarity's sake: Inputs A-H do not directly correlate with track faders 1-8. It is a mistake to ever think of the inputs A-H in terms of "1-8". I mention this because above you wrote:

"• Source C (3)"

The only way Source (input) C would correlate to track/channel 3 (or fader 3) is if you have assigned input C to track 3 in the assignment screen.

 

[Mark Richards]

I agree with what David wrote above. Just to clarify a few things:
The Trim Knob is not a volume control. It's a variable pad meant to tame low impedance source input levels. As it turns counter-clockwise, the Input's sensitivity decreases. If it were a switch instead of a knob, it would be labeled "line" on the left and "mic" on the right, and have two midway positions labeled "mic -40dB" and "mic -20dB".

The Trim Knob impacts the signal level at the Input, the track record level, and the track meter. But the source connected to the Input is the primary control over of the signal level being recorded. The trim knob is there to reduce the level of a hot low impedance signal.

The trim knob generally should be set full right for low impedance (lowZ) sources (mics), and full left for high impedance (hiZ) sources (outboard effects returns, pre-amps, etc.).

[Guitar pickups are HiZ - typically 40kHz. The "Guitar" setting on Input "H" changes the impedance on Input "H" to an extremely high 1M Ohms. Since it is high impedance, the initial Trim Knob setting should be full left. Adjust the guitar's volume to control input level for recording. Some single pickup guitars have a weak signal. If that's the case, turning the Trim Knob clockwise to increase the Input's sensitivity can bring the incoming signal up to an acceptable recording level. If this causes no discernible impact on the recorded sound (any kind of change in the guitar's sound, loss of higher frequencies, distortion, etc) then this is the one exception where the Trim Knob could be used to increase the weak line level signal for recording purposes.]

If a lowZ source is overloading the Input, the first option should be, for a mic, to move the mic further away from the source. If that doesn't solve the problem, ~then~ use the Trim Knob to manage the Input signal.

If a hiZ source is overloading the Input, reduce the output level of the hiZ source.

The proper way to raise a weak incoming signal is, if a mic, bring it closer to the source; and if a line level input, raise the output level of the hiZ source.

The track fader controls the volume of the signal going to the bounce bus and to the output busses. It has no impact on the Input channel signal, track meter or the track record level.

 

[Doodle46]

Thanks a lot, guys. That is eye-opening info, because how I view things makes a difference in my understanding of them. I think one of my biggest misconceptions was making a connection between the (8) Mono Faders and the (8) Source Select Buttons... if my terminology is correct.
• Settings - if I understand correctly:
1. Set assignment(s).
2. Set Trim Knob(s) to proper position.
3. Set Fader Level for Nominated (armed) Track.
4. Mono Faders (1-8) are irrevelant, in this scenario, and need no setting at all.

 

[Mark Richards]

#3: There is no "Fader Level" associated with recording the armed track. The recording level of the Armed track is based on the signal as it arrives at the DP-xx Input. The meter of the armed track reflects the recording level of the signal as it arrives at the Input.

The recording level of the armed Track is determined by the placement of the mic connected to the Input, or by the output of the line level device connected to the Input. If the source is a hot mic, then the Trim Knob can be used to reduce the hot mic signal to a usable recording level.

The only fader associated with an Input is the internal fader available via the Mixer screen. However, that fader only affects the stereo bus. It has nothing to do with the actual recording of an Input signal on an armed track.

 

[David Porter]

What Mark said...

And....

4. Mono Faders (1-8) are irrevelant, in this scenario, and need no setting at all.

Any of the mono faders (1-8) are relevant from a monitoring standpoint *IF* any one or more of the inputs A-H are assigned to them and that track(s) is armed.

Remember this:

Any of the 8 inputs (A-H) can be pointed to (or ASSIGNED to) any of the tracks (1-32). The choice is yours (with some limitation).

 

[Doodle46]

Thank you, Mark. When I raise or lower the Nominated Track’s Fader it affects the volume. Is this not a “Volume Level?” Do you mean... the Nominated Track Fader’s Volume Level has no influence on the Signal Level?
I do understand about the relevance of Mono Tracks, if they are Nominated (armed) Tracks.

 

[Mark Richards]

The Armed Track Fader sends the Input signal present on the armed track to the Stereo Bus and the Monitor Bus. It only affects what you hear, not what you record. It has no impact on the incoming signal being recorded. So the only reason to set the armed track's fader level is to provide a headphone cue (if you need one) as you record.

The DP-32 has 22 Track Faders. The Dp24 has 18 Track Faders. All the Track Faders function the same way.

On a typical recording studio mixing console the track faders control both the record level of the incoming signal and the level of the signal heard in the stereo bus. On the DP-xx, the track faders only control the signal level sent to the stereo bus/monitor bus in record and playback modes, and the bounce bus in Bounce mode.

 

[Doodle46]

One reason why my “recording thinking” got off to a bad start: As a guitarist, entering my retirement years, I decided to create a Home Studio. With ZERO recording knowledge, I bought the Tascam neo-2488, which I was very happy with. This was several years ago, but I didn’t retire from the stage until a year ago.
When I bought the neo-2488, a friend of mine, with recording experience, offered to help. All of his recording equipment was expensive Presonus, and way different from mine. He had never seen a Tascam DP. Nevertheless, I was grateful for his advice, some of which, started me off on the “wrong” foot. I also studied & re-studied my DP Manual, but some things were confusing to me. This is “partly” why my thinking has been somewhat off-track. I take full responsibility for my lack of understanding, and I cannot place that blame on my friend. However, once I’m shown a trail that appears to “get me there,” I stay on it.
I want to thank all of you for shedding more & better light on my recording journey.

 

[David Porter]

I'm of the opinion that going back to square one... with a clear view of the block diagram in front of you... slowly and carefully start with this video and don't move forward to the next video until you're clear on this. It is amazingly helpful for a clear understanding of signal flow and routing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MBnwTI2gRw&t=0s&index=3&list=PLI2uGjCObnySgNrQyJmlcQpQaUdgBdW6l

 

[Doodle46]

Hey Mark! Thanks for clearing-up my thinking about the Armed Track Fader not having a bearing on the incoming signal. With help from all of you guys, I’m gaining a much better picture of my overall recording technic.

 

[Mark Richards]

Doodle, it's easy to understand the confusion. The DP-xx doesn't fully function like a typical recording studio console and TASCAM's tech writers can't be bothered explaining that in the owner manual.

 

[Phil Tipping]

Glad it's making sense Doug. These 'misconceptions' are the reason for the approach taken in the tutorials - they seem daunting at first, but tutorial 3A from 1m to 1m40s makes the point...

 

[Doodle46]

Thank you, Phil. Will do!

 

[David Porter]

This video is the next logical step with regard to understanding signal flow and routing. The block diagram is our friend.