DR-40 recording Volume

[Ralf Sandner]

Hi

[ the soluition offered here did not work for me http://www.tascamforums.com/threads/tascam-dr-40-getting-sound-output-loud-enough.633/
feel free to direct me to existing threads, i prolly was too stupid to use the search properly]

I just got a DR-40 cos my M-Audio MicrotrackII passed away.

I am using it to record vinyl via the Direct input.

recording WAV 24bit, 44,1k, -6db

the output I get is way too faint as opposed to the recordings i did with the Microtrack

Sample in Audacity recorded with the DR-40

Sample in Audacity recorded with the Microtrack

where to change the settings?

thanx

 

[Art Anderson]

I looked up the Microtrack to try and get a clue to the differences. It wasn't much help.

What are you calling 'direct' from vinyl? Can you describe the signal chain from the needle to the DR-40. Cables, ends, any phono preamp? etc. would help.

 

[Ralf Sandner]

The PCM is connected to the amp - Yamaha A-S700- via tapedeck ports- output cinch into the line audio jack, playpack via the out audio jack into inpiut cinch

Recording from record player, no preamp

Same setting worked for years perfect with the Microtrack.

 

[tzdvl]

I know what your problem is. The DR-40 is not designed for, and will not work with, single-ended (unbalanced) input sources.

My post in another thread here will explain further:

http://www.tascamforums.com/threads/dr-40-with-external-microphone.4841/#post-23511

 

[tzdvl]

To further clarify my post above...

I looked at the user's manual for the M-Audio Microtrack II.

The Microtrack has input jacks that are TRS (tip-ring-sleeve) type, designed to work with a ballanced (+/- and ground, or hot, cold and ground) signal. BUT it is apparently ALSO designed so that if you insert an unbalanced TS (tip sleeve) plug, like a normal 1/4 inch mono plug, it will still work. The mono plug will short the "-" or "cold" part of the input jack to ground. The Multitrack has enough gain to work with just the + (hot) signal.

The DR-40 is NOT designed to work with a single-ended input. It just won't work. I tried using my DR-40 to record vinyl records like you are doing.
I tried connecting the RCA tape outputs (single-ended, hot and ground) from my preamp to the DR-40 inputs in three different ways:

I tried an adaptor that connects the single input to both the tip and ring of a 1/4 inch TRS plug. That method connects togetther the tip and ring, which in the DR-40 results in complete cancellation of the input signal. I recorded nothing but a bit of noise.

I also tried an adaptor that connected the input signal to JUST the tip of the TRS plug, leaving the DR-40 ring terminal disconnected (floating) .
I also tried a "normal" TS plug adaptor (no ring terminal). This results in the - (ring or cold) terminal in the DR-40 shorted to ground.

These last two methods both worked exactly the same: I got a very low-level recording, similar to what you showed in your first post. If you connect a single-ended input to the DR-40 in either of these last two ways it will make a recording, but at a -6db level (half the normal volume level), and the DR-40 does not have enough input gain to compensate.

 

[Art Anderson]

Hello tzdvl. That's a much better response about what's going on. I declined assisting more past my first post because the second explanation from Ralf just didn't help me.

DR-40 will work with unbalanced signals but like you described, with a volume handicap. You'll get a weaker signal recorded but it will be "normal." However if a very weak and garbled signal is the result, it's almost always because the input signal is stereo on T-R-S phone plugs. All that's recorded is the tiny differences left over when comparing a left channel to a right channel. For someone to get an idea of how small that difference is, listen to music from your smartphone or PC with headphones or earbuds. Then flip the earpieces and tell me if you're sure every time which side is which.

So in addition to calling the DR-40 input "balanced" people need to keep in mind the word "differential" when trouble shooting.

 

[tzdvl]

Actually, I've made a mistake

The 1/4 inch TRS inputs on the Microtrack II work like on the DR-40, and require a balanced signal.

The 1/8 inch input on the Microtrack DOES accept an unbalanced (stereo) input. The original poster did not specify which input (cinch?) he was using, but he must have been connecting the L/R stereo signals from his amp to the 1/8 inch MIC input of the Microtrack.

The DR-40 has no equivalent input.

 

[Ralf Sandner]

First of all - thanx heaps to you guys for answering a newbie question in depth - no trolling or RTFM like on other boards.

to answer tzdvl - your assumption is wrong, the microtack was also connected via the 1/4 jacks, with cinch to TS adapter

hmmm. gonna see how the recording results are when tweaking around in audacity.

then i still need to test the DR-40 at band practice. If this is satisfying i will keep it. otherwise it will be returned and i will eventually invest in a SS-R250N

 

[Art Anderson]

Here is a setup I used last night for live recording. BTW, this guitar player is worth hearing.
He feeds his guitar's signal to a series of effects boxes, then into a Fishman Loudbox amplifier. That amplifier then gets fed to a Bose L1 system, along with his vocal microphone. All this is so he has flexibility and convenient access to the controls he wants while he is playing.

I take a signal from the back of the Bose L1. It is a 1/4" TRS mono balanced signal.
That comes to my DR-40 through a 1/4" TRS into Channel 1 (left channel). The DR-40 is set to Recording Mode: 4 CH, EXT IN 1. The slider on the left of the DR-40 is set to Line.
I often run the internal microphones to gather a bit of ambient room acoustics. Otherwise when I make a video, the straight in recording is too sterile and sounds odd when you can clearly see a musician playing in a club. It should sound like a club, not a sound booth. So I mix in a small percentage of the microphone tracks. This sample does not have that. It's cable signals all the way from the guitar's internal microphone.

I adjust my levels to be between the red lines I drew on the image of my DR-40. With the kind of dynamic guitar playing done here, the Peak light on the DR-40 was still "blipping" on a regular basis, but not holding on steady at any time. There is a tiny inverted triangle symbol that is so small I forget it's there. But the easy thing to watch is that your level bars stay moving within the zone under the minutes digits on the timer.

On to Audacity, the image is the original signal loaded in from the DR-40. You can see the dB monitor has a line indicating peak of -12 dB. Beautiful.

The MP3 sample is roughly from this same segment of the recording. Again, unaltered original. No normalization or filtering. PLAY 256Kbps sample

So, balanced line input helps a lot with noise reduction and level but unbalanced 2 conductor will still get you there. Just stay away from stereo jacks or stuff designed for use with smartphones which doesn't follow any conventional recording standards, and you'll avoid a lot of disappointments.