Drums .Recording

[Tyros]

Hi all.
I have been trying to record addictive drums played on a Yamaha DD55 drum thingy.through a lexicon audio interface from a PC.then to a Tascam 24 sd.
The problem is that when i play them live the drum kit sounds full and strong.
Full Mids plenty of bottom end plus a clean crisp top.
When i play it back with no effects as it was played in.THIN THIN THIN.what the heck happened.
Its not just my ears, my friends are in agreement.
To be honest I am now at a loss as to how to improve the drum recording.
I connect the DD55 to the PC with midi to USB.
boot up Addictive drums sort a kit ect,ect, fiddle a bit with settings.
The output is sent to the lexicon .
Then to the DP24sd.
Everything else i record .guitar.keyboard bass and voice sound great to me.
Just the drums.
If anyone has any Ideas on what could be the problem
I would be grateful for the assist.
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. Tyros
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"This sort of thing has cropped up before, and it has always been due to human error."

 

[witzendoz]

Is the left and right Stereo in phase? Did you accidentally sum the left and right of the stereo to mono within the DP24SD?

I don't quite get why you have it plugged in the way you do? Why is the Yamaha not plugged directly into the DP32?

Alan.

 

[Tyros]

Hi thanks for your reply.
I am sure the phasing is correct.
I record the PC output to a stereo channel.

And if i plug the Yamaha directly into the DP24sd
I lose the addictive drums VST ,the Yamaha drum sounds are not that good.
But it is midi so can be used as a trigger device for addictive drums,these sound much better
But have to be played as a VST plugin or stand a lone program on a PC .mac. or.win.
I would like a full drum kit but I live in a flat and would be impossible to do without massive sound deadening.So this seemed like a good compromise.

Thanks
Tyros.












"This sort of thing has cropped up before, and it has always been due to human error."

 

[cmaffia]

Why don't you render your MIDI drum tracks in your PC and then import the wav files in your DP32 project? That is the best possible sounding way to do this.

 

[Tyros]

Hi
Thanks for your reply.
The reason I don't do that is the same for why I don't use a drum box.
I would like to play as much of the crap I do my self.
This is proving more frustrating than I thought.
The really odd thing is the drums sound great going in to the Tascam.
I will try recording them in reaper and pass them back over to the Tascam.
Will post here what happens,if they still sound Thin may be there is an effect I can use.

Thanks
Tyros



"This sort of thing has cropped up before, and it has always been due to human error."

 

[cmaffia]

If it were me I would click track basic tracks while playing in your DAW then export your drums to wavs and import to DP32. That's just me

 

[witzendoz]

If the sound is gutless and defused sounding I still reckon it's a phase problem, what leads are you using to connect the devices?

Alan.

 

[Tyros]

Hi
Thanks for your reply s
Leads.
From DD55 To PC .......USB to midi.
From PC to Audio interface. USB cable.
From Interface To Tascam. Phono to 4.5 Jacks {this came with the unit}
There is almost no latency and it works quite well until I record,then it sounds thin with no mid or top.
I have no effects running on any device in the chain all Eq is set to middle.
When I record vocals it sounds great to me at least.
Guitar Once recorded sounds awesome Full range.
I have a tyros Keyboard this records so clean and clear its amazing again to my ears.
Its just the drums .honestly I am at a loss as to the cause.
Might have to use a drum box.............nooooooooooooooooooOOOOOOOOO!.
I have checked the phasing and I assure you it seems correct but happy to look again at that.

Thank you guys I appreciate all your help in trying to solve this issue.


"This sort of thing has cropped up before, and it has always been due to human error."

 

[witzendoz]

Just check the audio cables between the interface and the tascam with a meter to make sure it's wired correctly?

I am wondering if somewhere the drums are being summed to mono by connecting the Left and Right signals? Or even internally within the Tascam by summing the inputs or the wav files?

Alan.

 

[cmaffia]

My guess is you are recording the same drum channel twice into the DP32

 

[Tyros]

Hi
I have checked the cables and as far as I can tell its all plugged in correctly.
All of the connectors and sockets are colour coded red and white.
I record to track 13/14 ....a stereo channel with the drums just to be sure I get the whole signal.
I am not sure how I would record 2 channels of drums at the same time ,please could you explain a little more how that could happen
Because if that is what s happening I would certainly put a stop to it lol.
Because of crap working hours I don't always have time to experiment as much as I want
But this issue is on going and I will get to the bottom it some how.

Thanks guys .
Tyros.



"This sort of thing has cropped up before, and it has always been due to human error."

 

[cmaffia]

Do you have them panned hard left and right on output so that it is outputting correctly?

 

[Tyros]

Hi

Do you have them panned hard left and right on output so that it is outputting correctly?

When you say hard pan left and right ...from what unit please
I thought that Addictive drums output in Stereo and the Audio interface also stereo, it has no pan knobs, I then record to a stereo track on the Tascam.
To be honest I think you are on the right track with this,I am just not sure what to adjust.
I am going to unplug everything and start again.
Will let you know what happens

Thanks
Tyros




"This sort of thing has cropped up before, and it has always been due to human error."

 

[cmaffia]

And do you have them hard panned left and right on playback from the dp32!

 

[Phil Tipping]

Apologies for long post, but if you've not had chance to sort it out yet...
If you're recording to a stereo track, there is no need to pan anything on the dp24. The 2 inputs you are using for left & right signals from the Lexicon will be kept separate when assigned to a stereo track - there is no pan in the recording path. Similarly, when playing back, the left & right signals from a stereo track are routed separately to the left & right outputs on the machine; again no pan is reqd. - there's only a balance control, which is not the same thing. There's a lengthy discussion on this in the comments by youtube user oneminuszero on the Tutorial 6C: Stereo video.

As the others have said though, it does sound like a phase issue, so you could try the following to find the cause...

First check the connection from the Lexicon. Not sure which model you've got, but the one I looked at had separate outputs for left & right. They're balanced sockets, so if you're using a single stereo plug which splits into 2 mono jacks, then you'll get a thin sound as you're treating hot & cold (out of phase) signals as stereo left & right. If you've got separate cables for left & right, then read on...
If the Lexicon output is a single stereo jack (like the headphone/line output on your DD55), you do need a splitter cable which connects the tip to one 1/4" mono jack, and the ring to the other.

Simplify the setup by not recording, and use the dp24 as a simple live mixer. Unplug one of the leads from the lexicon so you've just got one side of the stereo signal, say left, coming in to one of the 8 inputs, say source A. Assign that source to the stereo bus. Do not arm any tracks, and turn all track faders down. Play the drums and turn up the master stereo fader. Listen to the stereo output or the monitor/headphones. It will only be half of the stereo signal, but it should still sound fairly good with plenty of bass.

If it sounds thin then it's not a phase cancellation issue as you're only listening to one signal, in which case check the input EQ and input insert effects... press Mixer, then press input/source A and check the EQ is flat. While you're there, confirm the phase box is unlit and Send Eff-1 is off. If the phase box was lit (i.e. phase inverted), this will cause problems if the other input is set differently - we'll do that later. First though, press Dynamics, then press source A and confirm the input insert effect for source A is off. You've now eliminated all the processes between source A and the stereo output.

Press Home, then press source A so it lights up, then turn the Pan knob. You should hear the drums move between your speakers/earphones. Leave the pan set to centre.

Now repeat for the other signal... unplug input A and plug in the right lead from the lexicon to a different input, say B, and assign that to the stereo bus. Repeat the above checks. If the phase setting was different to source A, then that's the culprit, and you can stop now.

If not, try combining the 2 signals.... plug the first cable back in to source A and listen. If it now sounds thin, then there is a phase difference between the signals before they reach the dp24. You can confirm this by pressing Mixer, press Source A, and turn on the phase invert to cancel out the difference. This should improve the sound. Not sure where you go from here, but let us know if any of above worked. Note that in this live mixer scenario, unlike recording/playback with a stereo track, you do need to pan the 2 inputs to left & right to hear a proper stereo sound, but this should not affect the sound quality very much.

 

[Tyros]

Hi guys
WooHooooo. Fixed.
So it Was Human error in the end
Its seems that the output cable from the lexicon is a basic stereo lead and was causing
the issue .To fix it I am now using separate O2 free cables and the drums sound great
And record spot on .who would have thought that an idiot left alone with some
Electric kit would fail so dismally .
Guys this thread has been a real eye opener for me and I have learned so much.
I am now the proud owner of one more Brain cell.

A huge THANK YOU to all.
As cash becomes available I will get better cables for all connections .

Phil.
I followed your instructions to the letter this helped me to narrow down the issue for sure.
Guys you seemed to know what the problem was right from the start.

Take your right arm {left if your a Lefty}.
Pass said appendage Over same Shoulder.
Now Pat Back till you feel warm and fuzzy.
"This sort of thing has cropped up before, and it has always been due to human error."