interface & recording

Not sure if I understand your post but, I think you are asking if you can connect your DM3200 to the Hammerfall HDSP 9623 card via ADAT and record your drums (or 8 mikes at once) through the DM's mic inputs and then into the Hammerfall card. The answer is yes, you can do that. But why? If you have the IF-FW/DM FW card already, you could record 16 mics and 16 other inputs, (32 channels) all from the 3200, at the same time. You would be limited to 8 channels over ADAT into the Hammerfall.
 
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yes ... you managed to decode the message :))

whit this card i will get unbalanced stereo analog input/output, 192kHz/24bit, over 110dB SNR, optional analog expansion boards for extra 4 balanced inputs or outputs, 1x ADAT digital I/O (up to 96kHz S/MUX operation), 1x SPDIF digital I/O (up to 96kHz), 1x breakout cable for coaxial SPDIF, up to 16 simultaneous I/O's, 1x stereo headphone output (parallel to the analog out) with independent level control, 1x MIDI I/O with 16 channels of hi-speed MIDI via breakout cable. TotalMix: 512 channel mixer with 40bit internal resolution, up to 96kHz on all analogue I/Os, optional balanced I/Os: RME BO9632. Drivers for WIN XP/Vista/7 and Mac OSX.

i want more quality :confused: and i think that the ADAT conection it's beter that the FW ...right ?
 
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Comandantu Renegat said:
i think that the ADAT conection it's beter that the FW ...right ?
Click to expand...
No, they're both digital interfaces with the same ones and zeros - though ADAT is more limited than the IF-FW.
 
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Comandantu Renegat said:
yes ... you managed to decode the message :))

whit this card i will get unbalanced stereo analog input/output, 192kHz/24bit, over 110dB SNR, optional analog expansion boards for extra 4 balanced inputs or outputs, 1x ADAT digital I/O (up to 96kHz S/MUX operation), 1x SPDIF digital I/O (up to 96kHz), 1x breakout cable for coaxial SPDIF, up to 16 simultaneous I/O's, 1x stereo headphone output (parallel to the analog out) with independent level control, 1x MIDI I/O with 16 channels of hi-speed MIDI via breakout cable. TotalMix: 512 channel mixer with 40bit internal resolution, up to 96kHz on all analogue I/Os, optional balanced I/Os: RME BO9632. Drivers for WIN XP/Vista/7 and Mac OSX.

i want more quality :confused: and i think that the ADAT conection it's beter that the FW ...right ?
Click to expand...

Do you actually plan on recording all of your channels at 192Khz? Do you actually plan on buying the 4 extra expansion boards?
You do realize that the DM 3200 can do all of this and more right? And, like Arjan said, "No", the sound quality will not be different between firewire and ADAT. Both are just two different ways to transport the same 1s and 0s.

1) "whit this card i will get unbalanced stereo analog input/output"
You get actual balanced stereo input and output from within the DM, and a bunch of them as well.
2) "192Khz/24bit, over 110db SNR"
The DM goes as high as 96Khz/24bit but mixes internally at 32bit with 64bit EQ resolution. Again, do you plan in recording everything at 192Khz? Those are huge files. 88.2 has been great for me. But if you need a frequency range up to 384Khz...well, go for it!
3) "optional analog expansion boards for extra 4 balanced inputs or outputs"
The DM has this with the assignable sends, as standard equipment. No extra charge. You already have it.
4) "1x ADAT digital I/O (up to 96kHz S/MUX operation)"
All the same as your DM
5) "1x SPDIF digital I/O (up to 96kHz)"
Your DM3200 has TWO of them, as well as TWO AES/EBU I/Os, AND 24 channels of TDIF as well!
6) "1x breakout cable for coaxial SPDIF"
Your DM already has two spdif I/O
7) "up to 16 simultaneous I/O's"
The DM does 32 over Firewire, 24 over Tdif, 4 ABS/EBU channels, 4 S/PDif cahnnels, And that's with no extra cards.
8) "1x stereo headphone output (parallel to the analog out) with independent level control"
You get TWO of these with your 3200 and it is NOT tied to your analog outs, unless you would like that.
9) "1x MIDI I/O with 16 channels of hi-speed MIDI via breakout cable"
Lol!.."Hi Speed MIDI" That's a good one. All MIDI connections are 16 channels. Same on the 3200!
10) "512 channel mixer with 40bit internal resolution"
That's their software mixer, not the total number of channels available for mixing from the hammerfall card. Most Daws have an unlimited amount of channels to mix with and use 64bit internal resolution.
11) "up to 96kHz on all analogue I/Os"
Same as your DM3200.
12) "optional balanced I/Os"
Optional? Really? They are standard on your 3200.

I am thinking that you are missing out on the actual potential of the board that is already in front of you. You just need to harness it's power. But, if you are more impressed with a bunch of specs (especially the "Hi-SPEED" MIDI...LOL) well then, here you go...Enjoy

SPECIFICATIONS
DM-3200 Digital Mixer
  • Analog audio I/O
  • All specifications are given with the factory reference
  • level of —16 dBFS.
  • MIC inputs (channels 1 through 16) balanced XLR-type female connectors
  • adjustable input level: (—60 dBu (TRIM max) to —4 dBu (0 dB pad))
  • (—40 dBu (TRIM max) to +16 dBu (—20 dB pad))
  • Input impedance 2.2k Ohms
  • PHANTOM (+48V) +48 V phantom power. Switchable in blocks of 4 channels
  • (1—4, 5—8, 9—12, 13—16)
  • LINE IN (BAL) inputs (channels 1 through 16) balanced 1/4" jacksb
  • adjustable input level (—44 dBu (TRIM max) to +12 dBu (TRIM min))
  • Input impedance 10k Ohms
  • INSERT connections (channels 1 through 16)od 1/4" TRS jacksc
  • Send: nominal output level —2dBu, maximum output level +14 dBu,
  • impedance 100 Ohms
  • Return: nominal input level —2dBu, headroom 16 dB, impedance 10 kohms
  • ASSIGNABLE RETURNS (BAL) (1 through 4) Balanced 1/4" jacks
  • Nominal input level: +4 dBu
  • Headroom: 16 dB
  • Input impedance: 5k Ohms
  • ASSIGNABLE SENDS (1 through 4) Pseudo-balanced 1/4" jacks
  • Nominal output level: —2 dBu
  • Maximum output level: +14 dBu
  • Output impedance: 100 Ohms
  • 2 TR IN (L/R) 2 x RCA pin jacks
  • Nominal input level —10 dBV
  • Headroom: 16 dB
  • Input impedance: 10 k Oms
  • STEREO OUTPUT (L/R) Balanced XLR-type male connectors
  • Nominal output level: +4 dBu
  • Maximum output level: +20 dBu
  • Output impedance: 100 Ohms
  • MONITOR OUTPUTS (CR (BAL)) Pseudo-balanced 1/4" jacks
  • Nominal output level: +4 dBu
  • Maximum output level: +20 dBu
  • Output impedance: 100 Ohms
  • MONITOR OUTPUTS (STUDIO) RCA pin jacks
  • Nominal output level —10 dBV
  • Maximum output level: +6 dBV
  • Output impedance: 100 Ohms
  • PHONES 2 x 1/4" stereo jacks
  • 50 mW + 50 mW total
  • 32 Ohms
  • a. all XLR-type connectors are wired 1=ground, 2="hot", 3="cold"
  • b. all balanced 1/4" jacks are wired sleeve=ground, ring=cold, tip=hot
  • c. all TRS 1/4" jacks are wired sleeve=ground, ring=return, tip=send
  • d. Maximum with both PHONES jacks driven at maximum
  • Digital audio I/O
  • DIGITAL INPUTS (1, 2) 2 x XLR-type female connectors (input impedance 110 Ohms) or
  • 2 x RCA pin jacks (input impedance 75 Ohms) (selectable)
  • AES3-1992 or IEC60958 data format (automatically detected)
  • 24-bit word length
  • Switchable sampling frequency conversion available
  • DIGITAL OUTPUTS (1, 2) 2 x XLR-type male connectors (output impedance 110 Ohms)
  • 2 x RCA pin jacks (output impedance 75 Ohms)
  • AES3-1992 or IEC60958 data format (software selectable)
  • 24-bit word length
  • TDIF-1(1, 2, 3) 3 x 25-pin (female) D-sub connectors (metric lock screws)
  • Conform to TDIF-1 standard
  • 24-bit word length
  • ADAT IN/OUT 2 x "Lightpipe" optical connectors
  • Conform to ADAT OPTICAL specifications
  • 24-bit word length
  • Sampling frequencies Internal 44.1 kHz/48 kHz, 88.2 kHz/96 kHz (high sampling frequencies)
  • External ±6.0%
  • Signal delay < 1.7 ms — Fs = 48 kHz, LINE IN to STEREO OUTPUT
  • < 0.85 ms — Fs = 96 kHz, LINE IN to STEREO OUTPUT
  • Miscellaneous I/O connections
  • WORD SYNC IN BNC connector
  • Switchable 75 Ohms termination
  • TTL level
  • WORD SYNC OUT/THRU BNC connector
  • Switchable between through and output
  • TTL level
  • MIDI IN, OUT, THRU/MTC OUT 3 x 5-pin DIN connectors—conform to MIDI specifications
  • USB USB 1.1 'B' type connector (12 Mbps)
  • TIME CODE IN RCA pin jack
  • Conforms to SMPTE specifications
  • FOOT SW 1/4" mono jack
  • TO METER 25-pin female D-sub connector (non-metric lock screws)
  • For use with the optional MU-1000
  • RS-422 (for Sony 9-pin) 9-pin female D-sub connector (non-metric lock screws)
  • wired to RS-422 standards
  • GPI (for Machine start) 9-pin female D-sub connector (non-metric lock screws) wired for GPI control
  • Pin 1=GP11, Pin 2=GPI2, Pin 3=GPI3, Pin 4=GPI4, Pin 5=GND, Pin
  • 6=GPI5, Pin 7=GPI6, Pin 8=GPI7, Pin 9=GP18
  • Specifications : Equalization
  • Equalization
  • All filters are fitted with "gain flat" switches
  • System performance
  • Physical characteristics
  • EQ switch On/Off
  • HIGH filter Gain: ±18 dB, 0.5 dB resolution
  • Frequency: 31 Hz to 19 kHz
  • Q: 0.27 to 8.65
  • Type: Hi-shelving, Peak, LPF
  • HI MID filter Gain: ±18 dB, 0.5 dB resolution
  • Frequency: 31 Hz to 19 kHz
  • Q: 0.27 to 8.65
  • Type: Peak, Notch
  • LO MID filter Gain: ±18 dB, 0.5 dB resolution
  • Frequency: 31 Hz to 19 kHz
  • Q: 0.27 to 8.65
  • Type: Peak, Notch
  • LOW filter Gain: ±18 dB, 0.5 dB resolution
  • Frequency: 31 Hz to 19 kHz
  • Q: 0.27 to 8.65
  • Type Low-shelving, Peak, HPF
  • THD (maximum level,
  • 1 kHz, TRIM: minimum)
  • 20 Hz — 22 kHz LINE IN to INSERT SEND
  • LINE IN to STEREO OUTPUT
  • < 0.005%
  • < 0.008%
  • Frequency response
  • (nominal level, 1 kHz,
  • TRIM: minimum)
  • 0.5dB/-1.0dB MIC/LINE to INSERT SEND
  • 0.5dB/-1.5dB MIC/LINE to INSERT SEND
  • 0.5dB/-1.0dB MIC/LINE to STEREO OUTPUTa
  • 0.5dB/-1.5dB MIC/LINE to STEREO OUTPUTa
  • a. MIC/LINE to channel module to STEREO OUTPUT, channel and stereo faders at 0 dB, pan hard left or hard
  • right
  • 20 Hz — 20 kHz (44.1/48 kHz)
  • 20 Hz — 40 kHz (88.2/96 kHz)
  • 20 Hz — 20 kHz (44.1/48 kHz)
  • 20 Hz — 40 kHz (88.2/96 kHz)
  • Noise level (20 Hz —
  • 22 kHz, TRIM: max,
  • 150 ohms)
  • MIC in (PAD off) to INSERT SEND (A weight)
  • STEREO OUT (Input no assign)
  • ASSIGNABLE RETURN to ASSIGNABLE SEND
  • 2TR IN to CR OUTPUT (CR: max, 0dB)
  • 2TR IN to STUDIO OUT (STUDIO OUT 0dB)
  • < —128 dBu (EIN)
  • < —83 dBu
  • < —85 dBu
  • < —78 dBu
  • < —88 dBu
  • Crosstalk @ 1 kHz STEREO/BUSS/AUX OUTPUTS
  • MONITOR OUTPUTS
  • > 90 dB
  • > 90 dB
  • Displays Backlit 320 x 240 LCD with contrast control
  • 2 x 12-segment LED meters
  • Faders 17 x 100 mm stroke, motor-driven touch-sensitive faders
  • Maximum overall dimensions (w x d x h) including rest 700 x 824 x 230 (mm) 27.6 x 32.4 x 9.1 (in)
  • Weight 24 kg (52.8 lbs)
  • Voltage requirements 120 VAC, 60 Hz
  • 230 VAC, 50 Hz
  • 240 VAC, 50 Hz
  • Power consumption 65 W
  • Supplied accessories Power cord, Quick Reference guide, 32 MB CF memory card, USB cable,
  • CD-ROM, warranty card
 
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I thought that the ADAT conection has higher efficiency as the FW ... i wanna knot if is there another way to record and which one it better ... ADAT ; FW ; TDIF .... etc etc
 
Comandantu Renegat said:
I thought that the ADAT conection has higher efficiency as the FW ... i wanna knot if is there another way to record and which one it better ... ADAT ; FW ; TDIF .... etc etc
Click to expand...
As stated before, all of these digital connections are the same quality and depending on your outboard gear, you may use a mix of these digital connections. If you already have the firewire expansion card then I am really confused because that's 32 inputs and outputs from your DM3200 at rates up to 96KHz communicating with your DAW. Why not use what you already have? I think we are all scratching our heads over what the problem is. Maybe it would be clearer if you explained what are you trying to accomplish and why? "Efficiency" comes down to the power of your computer hardware.
 
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cmaffia said:
"Efficiency" comes down to the power of your computer hardware.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Not better or worse sound.

You want to know which is better...ADAT, FW, or TDIF. Sound wise, they are all the same. As long as you are at the same sample rate for each. They are just three different ways to pass Ones and Zeros. One is not better than the other in terms of sound. They are there for convenience choice. You may only have a piece of equipment that uses TDIF, like the MX2424, or the MOTU 2408. So use TDIF. You might only have an ADAT tape deck like the Tascam DA38 that can only record 8 channels at a time. So use ADAT. In your case, you spent the money to get a FW card and a computer setup that will accept it. So I would use FireWire.

What's really important is to understand the limitations of each, and it comes down to sample rates. Basically;

1) ADAT...8 channels at a time only, limited to 44.1KHz or 48KHz using all 8 channels. If you want to use 88.2KHz or 96KHz sample rates, you will loose half of your channel count. ADAT only passes 4 channels at these higher sample rates. This is the S/Mux protocol in action. You cannot go any higher than 96KHz over ADAT, despite what the Hammerfall converters are rated at. It's a limitation of ADAT protocol.

2) TDIF...8 channels per cable at a time only limited to 44.1KHz and 48KHz. But the DM3200 has three TDIF I/Os ports, allowing for a total of 24 channels in and out over TDIF. But the limitations of TDIF are exactly the same as ADAT in terms of sample rate, except when used with the MX2424 recorder. Apparently you can use all 24 channels at 96KHz when using the MX2424. Don't ask me how they do it. Otherwise, you are limited to 44.1KHz and 48KHz for all 24 channels (all three cables). You can go to 88.2KHz and 96KHz but you will loose half the channel count, just like ADAT. S/Mux again.

3) FW...OK, this is why we are all scratching our heads over your question. The FW setup in the DM3200 allows you to pass 32 channels in and out at a full 96KHz at 24bits. Obviously that is WAY better than the other protocols. It is sooo nice to be able to do this with one little cable. Going out and buying a 500 dollar plus card just to pass 8 channels of ADAT at 44.1 or 48 doesn't make sense when you already have the BEST way to do it.

So, if your computer can handle the throughput of 32 channels of audio over FW, I would suggest staying with what you already have. When I first bought my DM3200, my computer was using Windows XP 32bit, with two 7200 SATA hard drives and 2 gigs of ram and an intel Q6600 processor on an ASUS p5B Deluxe motherboard. It handled everything just fine. That was in 2007 or 8. Not much has changed. I still use the same motherboard, but now my machine runs Windows 7 64bit with 8 gigs or ram, using an intel Q9650. I have 2 SSD drives, one for OS and programs, one for page files and extra space, and 4 7200 SATA hard drives. I keep audio files and projects on two mirrored drives, another is for VSTs and basic storage and the other is for VSTi samples and libraries.
 
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PS. I did not know anything about ADAT & TDIF , I know now that I can only record 8 channels per time :)
 
Comandantu,

I hope you won't mind me being blatantly honest; my intentions are good, I assure you.

But, it occurs to me that perhaps the DM3200 isn't the right setup for you. Without knowing what you're trying to accomplish, mind you, it seems that you might do better selling the DM, getting that Hammerfall interface, a simple DAW controller, and maybe some other goodies - mics, preamps, etc. Then, you can get some work done while studying up on digital audio. After awhile, you may discover that a digital hybrid mixer with the capabilities of a DM3200 is essentially unnecessary for your workflow.

DMixers are complex devices; they're designed to meet a rather broad range of challenges - from music recording to film post production and mastering. Tascam designed these machines to be eminently flexible and adaptable. In a sense, they're almost obsolete-proof; even if something 'bigger and better' comes along, it'll likely be capable of interfacing with the DM expanding further its capabilities. So, in order to be that powerful, these mixers are complex by nature. By necessity, then, there are many different ways to arrive at an end goal - through a number of access paths, interfaces, and routing methods.

So, my advice to you is - step back for a moment and look at the bigger picture. Are you willing to devote even more time to mastering this mixer, understanding the routing methods and various features at your disposal? Or - would it be better to cut your losses now, and start fresh with a more basic rig?

There's no shame in changing horses if the one you're riding isn't cooperating. :)

CaptDan
 
the thing is that i am very stubborn and i will lern evry bit of the tascam

my father use to say : Asking people you learn :)

tanks for the help
 
Indeed, good honest advise from the Captain. It seems from here that you went for the big guns right off the bat. Kudos, but there is a pretty steep learning curve with the DMs, if you have had no experience with digital mixers before. Although, this is my first digital mixer and I have gotten over most of the curve over the last 7 years. But, I am still learning new things about it all the time, and came to it with plenty (some) of analog mixing experience, doing live stuff since the 80s and recording since the late 90s. So, I respect your willingness to stick with it. However, when you say that you did not know anything about ADAT or TDIF until two posts ago, well...you really need to do a LOT of reading to catch up. Find some books on digital audio, recording basics etc. I love and reference two book in particular,...The Recording Engineer's handbook and The Mixing Engineer's handbook. Great stuff, but only two books in a large pile of reading material I have accumulated over the years. Forum replies should not be your only means of leaning about audio, digital or analog, the routing thereof, and the concepts involved with engineering or the art of recording. IMHO.

As for your second purchase idea, the AVID HD I/O 16X16 unit shown is fine for converting analog into digital, but again, your DM already does this. I am still not sure why you are looking for another multi-channel converter. Your DM3200 already does all this. I guess I am asking, what is it you are trying to accomplish by getting another Multi-channel converter? Be aware, when using any of these devices, you will be sending audio over the ASIO drivers, which only allows one device at a time. So, if you were to use this AVID unit, for 16 channels of audio, you could not use any other device at the same time, like your DM.

Out of curiosity, what Mics do you have? What DAW are you using? Do you have any external preamps? This might help me/us understand your setup a little better and offer better advice.
 
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Commandantu, I'd say: Less interface shopping, More music making! ;) Use what you already have - it's way more powerful than you think.
 
TascMan said:
Out of curiosity, what Mics do you have? What DAW are you using? Do you have any external preamps? This might help me/us understand your setup a little better and offer better advice.
Click to expand...

well i got the tascam dm 3200 :D 2 monitors M audio bx8 d2 , 2 compresors ART PRO VLA II (2) , 1 ART voice channel , 1 parametric EQ ( behringer FBQ ) and an old t.rack compresor , akai renaissance (mpc) , impulse 61 (keybord) ... in 2 week maybe 3 i will get the MOTU MIDI Express 128
microphone's : Neumann TLM 102 ; Shure Super 55 Deluxe ; Shure PGDMK6-XLR ;Superlux S241


ps : my pc // intel core tm i5-4570 CPU @ 3.20GHz , 8 GB ram , windows 7 64bit ...

DAW : Fl Studio since 2007 , sonar since 2011 and now i wanna learn pro tool or cubase because i don't like how sonar works whit tascam ....
 
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Better in what way? Sound quality? nope.
A Digital audio signal's quality is determined when it is created as an analog signal and then converted to digital. That's where the sound differences comes into play. Not because of the mode of transportation. (FW- ADAT- TDIF- Etc.) (I am purposely disregarding the subject of signal variances-jitter-when using some of these protocols; regardless, I believe FW does not have a problem with this as much as ADAT, AES/EBU, S/PDif and others might have)

Convenience? when compared to ADAT or TDIF? nope.
Since you can send 32 channels of those digital signals over FW at up to 96KHz, you have bypassed the abilities of the other connections. That's most convenient.

The best connection ever? probably not, it depends on your needs. There are a ton of multichannel digital connections out there and there are limitations to each. For the DM3200/4800, FW works great! (64 channels of MADI would have been a nice tool as well, but not really needed)
 
Judging from your equipment, you have a very nice setup for making great quality music. As for your DAW choice, any of the ones you are considering would be excellent. With absolutely NO disrespect to any Pro-Tools guys out there, and given that it sounds like you are wanting to do your own indi/project studio thing on a windows computer, I would lean towards Cubase from the choices you listed. Excellent built-in tools with everything you need to go from basic tracking to finished CD, and the leader for VST plugins, of which there are many! I humbly but happily use Reaper. I like VSTs!
I also have some of the equipment you listed. Curious why you decided to buy 2 Pro VLA IIs? They are stereo, so you have 4 channels of compression. Was that intended? Also, are you currently happy with how it is all hooked up or are you having any routing problems?
 
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