Output for Re-amping

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Walking Machine

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Tascam 3200
Hi,

I have a rather simple question.
I'd like to know which output on the Tascam 3200 would be best for sending a guitar signal back to a reamp box.

I'm using the Radial X-amp - Input - Balanced Line XLR (600ohms, +4dbu)
I know that the aux sends work, but they are -2dbu output at 600 ohms according to the manual.
I'm just trying to figure out the best way to do this that would result in the most transparent signal comparable to that of the guitar plugged straight into the amp.

If I should use the CR output, is there a way to route only one channel from the mixer, or one firewire channel from SLOT 1 to the Control Room output, rather than the whole mix?

Thanks in advance!

Also, side question.. are the instrument TRS inputs on each channel 2mega ohms?
 
Ok. Well, after further reading about impedance... and a little more research into the manual I found that

A) both the aux sends and the CR output are at 100ohms, not 600ohms.
B) I don't need a 600ohm output because output impedance should be about 1/10 of that of the input impedance on the reamp. (though, the reamp is rated at 600ohms, which would be 6 times the line level output).

But, I still have the question of the level of the outputs.
The reamp is looking for +4, but the aux sends are -2.
Would it be better for the reamp to see the +4 send from the CR?
How does the CR gain control effect the output level.
In other words, is 12 oclock +4? Or is all the way up +4.
I seem to be a bit confused.

Thanks in advance for any help.
 
Thank you Captain Dan. That's what I've been doing so far, and it works.
I was just very curious about the implications of the fact that the level of those assignable sends is -2dbu and the reamp is looking for +4dbu.

If I am not adjusting the gain at all through the chain back to the amp, would this assignable send not be dropping the signal in voltage and therefore tone?

Thanks again, and thanks for your patience with my obvious misunderstandings.
 
Thank you so much for replying.
I actually did a bit more research and had a "duh" moment when I realized that I can adjust the output of that assignable send anyway to be +4 if I want.

Now, for one more question to satisfy my interest, and to figure out why I'm still losing tone....

The line output is 100 ohms. The line input on the reamp box I'm using is only 600ohms. I know most Line inputs are standard 1k ohms. For properly transferring the tone of the guitar would I not want at least 10:1 when it comes to impedance?

I actually spoke with Radial regarding this and they said it shouldn't much matter. But, I understand that this mismatch leads to losing voltage, therefore tone, right?

Thanks so much!
 
Interesting question, but I tend to agree with whomever you spoke with at Radial: in practice, it shouldn't matter much. What exactly are you experiencing when you describe the results as 'losing tone?' And could that be a function of something other than impedance?

As for the impedance ratio, I've read it can be anywhere from 5:1 to 10:1. If you're concerned about it, you have some options:

1. D/I box like the Countryman

2. Impedance switching pre-amp.

More personal, incidental opinion:

I've never gotten results from re-amping like I have with an actual amp in the original recording. This goes double for lead instrument material, and less so for rhythm/background tracks. I believe this is because 'something' occurs when a speaker, carrying a properly gain staged signal, reacts with the 'room and air.'

But, you'd think that sending an unamped signal back through an amp and microphone would fix that, and in most ways it does. The downside - the original signal has been degraded - through A/D conversion, added noise distortion and potential harmonic loss. And once it's gone - it's gone.

I'm kind of old school that way. The weakest link in ANY signal chain occurs at the primary electrical conversion to auditory signal. But I've been accused of being a little eccentric, so take this for what it's worth. :)

CaptDan
 
Thanks so much for your responses Capt Dan. much appreciated.

I now have a much more firm understanding of the signal chain, and it's weak points (or potential weak points). (where I'm losing volume, tone)

I definitely know what you mean as far as just the way the pickups react with the amp when plugged straight in and in the same room. It's never going to be exactly the same.

But, I did want to try and get everything as close as possible. I figured the best way to do this was to ensure that the guitar is seeing the same load at the pickups that it would plugged into the amp. My Fender Deluxe Reverb has 1Mohm input, so I found that the piece of gear best suited (and the only one) for this is my Tech 21 Sansamp RBI because it is also 1Mohm at the input. I understand that I'm always going to lose some feel at both points of A/D conversion, but that's a moot point since it will not hinder me from still wanting the flexibility of being able to reamp my DI signal if changing the tone would make for a better mix. I will still be monitoring through the amp when recording guitar so that I do get that pickup/amp interaction as well as recording the amp. I hope to get what I need without having to reamp, but it's nice to have.

Thanks again.
 
To answer your questions, it just seems like the signal from my Di/reamp chain results in a thinner sound from the amp than the guitar straight in (lacking in frequency info, apparently top end but just overall weaker, even when gain staged to the correct volume). And it very well could be the way that I had everything gain staged or even recording the DI level too hot or too low, using a DI with a different input impedance than the amp... I don't know.

I will definitely be experimenting.

If I determine it to be an impedance issue at the reamp box, I will try a few other reamp boxes with higher input impedance, see if that makes a difference. Or maybe rig up a resister of sorts that will bring the output from Tascam from 100 ohms to 50 ohms, so that the ratio is higher? since most gear with variable impedance is not cheap.

I'll update the thread if I find anything that helps, because I know a lot of other people out there have a hard time wrapping their heads around the signal loss when reamping. Seems really common with the X-amp (which is what leads me to think that might be the issue).
 
Indeed. The more tools the better.

One of our resident experts - 'Jamsire' - uses and knows the Tech 21 gear well. Hopefully he'll check in here and offer his perspective.

There a few very good multi-impedance preamp/DIs available these days - and not for a huge sum. FocusRite's ISA-One (I use one for my ribbon mics) can be gotten for under $500. And there are a few others as well. The FocusRite is especially handy for dual/mic-amping because it features both a multi impedance D/I and Mic/Line input. These can be set independently.

But none of that is an absolute necessity either.

CaptDan
 
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For those who are input impedance sensitive, tonally speaking, I found this little tool worth checking out: The VariOhm. It might be the fix for your impedance impairments.
 
This is what my Art MPA Gold is good for too. The variable input impedance knob sweeps between 150 to 2400 Ohms.
 
Great recommendations.

I've heard some great stuff about the ART MPA stuff. May have to look into that. For the price, I've heard they are fantastic!

The VariOhm seems pretty awesome. I like how it actually has selectable levels rather than a pot that goes from one to the other, so you know the exact impedance.

On the other hand, I found this in my searches yesterday. For $35 and some soldering fun, I doubt one could be too unhappy with their purchase.
http://store.diyrecordingequipment.com/z-in-preamplifier-input-control/

Also, back to the topic of reamping, that same website sells this kit as well....
http://store.diyrecordingequipment.com/passive-pickup-emulator-kit/

Goes AFTER the reamp, to sort of change that really linear sound we were talking about into something that closer resembles the range of guitar pickups. Neat idea. Doesn't seem too horribly promising, but it could be rather cool to try out.
Changes the impedance from a constant over all frequencies to being dynamic and changing with frequency. Neato.
 
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