Questions, questions...! Hard drive suitability

[English Billy1]

Here we go again! Has any member used this drive for recording into..
Seagate ST150176LW
I have studied the mx2424 manuals and understand the bus protocol used: LVD and the only odd thing is this Seagate drive is 50 Gb in capacity! It is an Ultra2 scsi 7200 rpm 68 pin drive so seems to be compatible potentially (as an external drive of course) the Seagate manual states the drive works on LVD/SE.. Why does only 9/18/37 gb drives get mentioned - does the mx need drives of those sizes ONLY?
I am interested because this refurbed drive is like 1/3 of the price of a Seagate 18 Gb hdd of the same LVD specs..
Can anyone advise me please? I'm actually trying to correct a f-up I made buying a RAiD external enclosure which had a scsi external connector but the four drives inside were ATA-100 so don't work!! Oh well, I gutted the enclosure and I want to install 2 drives (1.6" height) in place of the four slimmer IDE drives...

 

[English Billy1]

Anyone...?
I am not being lazy in the meantime, I have re-read every Tascam mx2424 manual and studied scsi protocol via the interweb. I have to say scsi ultra2 LVD equipment - ie drives are not widely available used - at least not in my area (San Diego) and this is a very big I.T. area! So I am forced to purchase from a supplier online and I see a great price differential between various LVD hdd models. The drive I referenced in my o.p. is $25 refurbished where as a Quantum Atlas 9 gig drives are bordering on $100! Doh.. I imagine the Seagate ST150176LW comes clean with no weird partitioning and by the definition of the mx2424 scsi protocols it should work... properly terminated. I just wanted to see if anyone could offer a technical reason it won't work? My plan is to use two of these 50 gb (approx) drives in my external enclosure along with the stock 9gb Atlas V internal drive but record to the two externals only.. I'm working on demo projects right now and my internal drive is at 80% capacity so I am desperate to expand the system!!!

 

[witzendoz]

I wish I had an easy answer, I have never seen a 50gig 68 pin drive before. At $25 I would just buy one and try it. You may find the MX will see it as a 36gig drive but you will get the 50gig of usage, but I can't be sure.

You know that years ago there were people on the old site that were using 80 pin drives (which are cheap and plentiful) with a 80/68 pin adaptor on the back.

I actually have a few 68 pin 72 gig scsi drives but I use these as a common backup of the individual projects on the smaller drives. My favourite size drive is 18 gig followed by 36 gig.

Regarding the use of the Raid box, I have several times in the past converted computer towers, server towers and drive cases into external scsi towers, and all with good results. I now have a heavy duty SCSI tower with 6 rack out drive bays (6 because I have 2 different style drive bays so I get 3 of each if required) and it works a treat. I have so much scsi junk laying around now I can make up anything, but when I started it was massively expensive.

Alan.

 

[English Billy1]

Thanks Alan! I think I will be that test pilot.. Answer me one Q that I just can't quite get me stupid head around please..? I actually need to get a damn ribbon made up too for my enclosure ( because the two external connectors were not seperate parts they were part of the RAiD controller card) so I got thinking that I really want two drives in my external box - they will physically fit nicely - so thus I need a ribbon from an external 68 to two internal females then on to an external 68 - so I can terminate with my external active termi... My Q is with that 2 drive loom - could one use it with a single drive - I ask cuz I might just try one $25 50gb hdd first!!! The only short ribbon from ext to int I could source was one for the computer end (thus with no means to terminate as the first scsi device has inbuilt termination.. that kind of peed me off cuz that loom goes for $3!!! Let me know pls about the ribbon I need to order Billy

 

[English Billy1]

Attempting to figure this out myself.. maybe I could get the two device ribbon - install one drive and terminate internally on the second internal port??? I don't know if scsi needs every 'port' in the daisy chain occupied you see?!! Regarding the ST150176LW - I feel like it should work - it's spec is 100% spot on.. 7200 rpm, LVD, under 73 gb - 68 pin ultra2 scsi... etc etc.. but will it!!!!??? ;-)

 

[English Billy1]

On a related matter... Here's one for all you mx users - recording time/capacity! OK Tascam's original factoryblurb (techdoc.pdf I believe) states ''a solid 45 minutes recording time'' about the unit containing the 9 gb Atlas V internal hdd. I have four tracks currently on my 9 gb internal - three 3.5 minute tunes plus a 4.5 minute track and none of them use more than 16 tracks... Yet mxView tells me ''1 gb remaining'' in the project/track window!! Do I believe the 1 gb or just make my final two tracks and risk fragmentation..? Surely Tascam wouldn't bs about the 45 minutes ''solid'' recording time.. would they..???!! There must be lots of guys on here that can verify how much time is available on the stock 9 gb before hitting the 80% limit? I mean with 24 tracks used..

 

[witzendoz]

Cable: The first one I ever used was an internal scsi computer cable, I left the end hanging out of the case and plugged the other end into the drives and the terminator. I have had internal cables with up to 6 plugs on it, like this one, some even come with drive plugs, an external plug and an active terminator, I have one in my spares box. Oh and you don't need to have every port / drive plug occupied.

The drive capacity is worked out for projects recorded in "Tape Mode" if you record in "Non-Destruct Mode" the MX keeps all the versions up to 999. Unless you delete the unused files, render the tracks or convert the project to "Tape Mode" later.

I always record initially in Tape Mode, I convert the project to Non-Destruct if I have to carry out any edits later. I have fitted a 45 min album onto a 9 gig drive, using between 16 and 24 tracks per song. However this is the reason I like 18 gig drives as you can fit the extra songs or edits onto the drive.

 

[English Billy1]

Awesome - bless you Alan for the quick reply! OK so - you don't need every drive connector 'occupied' in a scsi daisychain ribbon setup? Wow - that's cool.. But somewhere - ie the 'end' you need active termination..? I ALSO have discovered another apparent discrepency in Tascam's own documentation.. On the scsi 02.pdf I believe it is: Tascam state maximum combined scsi cable lengths - including inside the cases and that figure is small - but in that techdoc (or another Tascam doc) they boast you can run a huge (like 30 foot..!) scsi cable to your hard drive because it's LVD (ultra2 scsi) - Any thoughts on this? I was aiming for a short tidy ribbon.. ;-) By the way, I'm going to order one ST150176LW Seagate and a short ribbon - external 68 to two internals to another external 68 -using proper twisted LVD spec ribbon..

 

[witzendoz]

I have never seen the doc saying you can use cables up to 30 feet, I have seen max as being 6 feet. I have been advised over the years from tech people that shorter the better as longer cables can create errors. I think my external cable is about 2 feet and the inside of the case would be about 1 foot. I have got a longer external cable laying around but even thats only about 3 feet but never used it. I wish I could use a 30 feet cable to get the drive tower out of the control room, but fitted with quiet fans and with a few baffles it's not too noisy

If you shop around on places like ebay there are tons of second hand scsi cables, and bits and pieces, cheap! All the old scsi network stuff is being thrown out and they are just trying to get something for it, anyone asking high prices is just trying to recover money they spent when they bought it. When I stared with the MX, when they first came out, the scsi gear was massively expensive, not I own so much scsi gear and really it's worthless money wise, but handy to have. Shop around on the net.

Alan

 

[English Billy1]

Alan - I can't find that ''place your noisy hdd way down the hall..'' quote BUT even better - in ''Techdoc-01.pdf '' on page 9/9 in the specs Tascam/Timeline quote max scsi bus length as a huge 25 metres for < (or =) 2 scsi devices (scsi IDs they say) and an impressive 12 metres with under 15 scsi IDs...!!!! I'm not being a 'know-it-all'' but many ppl like myself that record vocals in their control room might appreciate re-siting a drive enclosure in the bedroom or closet next door wouldn't you think?
Peace and great recordings...

 

[witzendoz]

I would not believe what the Techdoc says, more like a sales brochure, I would believe MX_SCSI_2_1.pdf doc which says 6 feet.

I must say regarding the noise from the drive enclosure that this is the least of my noise worries, I have the MX (with quiet fan fitted) and reasonably quiet PC (soon to be upgraded) and the drive tower (again with quiet fans) and when you add the 3 together you can hear it. However I have placed the MX in a rack (so the fan outlet is hidden inside the rack), the PC and scsi towers under the mixing desk and sitting on a foam floating panel, and made a foam panel that sits in front of the PC and tower for when I a recording in the control room and on a vocal mic it is barely heard, my breathing is louder. Quiet fans are a must, have you found any of my posts about using a Noctua NF-R8 80mm Quiet Case Fan in the MX. Drops the noise by a fair amount. Bought it / them through this site.

Alan.

 

[timmdrumm]

I can say that I've been running 12 meter/39 ft. SCSI cables for several years from the MX to external drive enclosures and never had a problem with it. These are the cables I use: 12 M meter Sun SCSI HD68 68 pin cable 530-1886-01. Got them on ebay from a seller called Techie Basement, though it doesn't appear he' still in business.