Which Mac is best for use with a DM 3200

earlink45

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Well it's time to finally upgrade and I'm not sure which Mac Pro to go with. When I couldn't afford it in 2012 I was drooling over the 12 core 5,1 before they came out with the trashcan Mac. Now it seems everyone who is purchasing is going with the trash can Mac. Is it really that much better? I could only afford to buy a 6 core trash can vs the 12 core predecessor. I really have no idea other than what I have been reading on all the other threads. I have been using PC Windows XP and Windows 7 and a MacBook Pro with Snow Leopard since 2004. I've been working on Sonar, Cool Edit Pro, and Reason. I do mainly editing ITB. I have crap loads of outboard gear that are connected to 2408s w/424pcie, DM3200 w/iffw, or 2 HD24XRs. All MIDI is networked thru 4 MTPAVs. All is clocked from Antelope Isochrone OCX.

I just purchased Push 2 with Ableton 9.7 and I believe I will be purchasing Logic Pro. I will also be purchasing some sort of UAD. The 2012 Mac Pro 5,1 seemed essential over the years because I have older equipment with firewire and Motu 424 pcie it only seemed obvious to go with a UAD pcie. I know there are adapters that firewire can be converted to Thunderbolt. I know there are external expansions for pcie cards for Thunderbolt. If i go that route it appears that I would have to buy more than one pcie expansion.

So anyone who is using either or who has used both can you please share your wisdom...

Which Mac Pro?
Which IOS?
Which UAD?
Which Pcie expansion?
Is Satellite or Apollo better than UAD Pcie?
Any alerts on what not to purchase?
 
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The DM3200 is where all the the equipment above comes together thru all its peripherals and routing capabilities. My PC is crapping out. The track count is getting higher than it can handle. I really need to upgrade. I just don't want to regret this investment and buy the wrong Mac and wrong iOS.

Is it better to have 6 core trash can Mac with 32 gb ram or 4 core with 64 gb ram? Or is better to get an older 2012 mac with 12 cores? I beleive the servers made in that year has greater ram capabilities. Would the 2012 mac pro server work with the DM3200?
 
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I can only speak for the tower MAC PRO , not the coffee pot new mac. However anyone seems to be fine, I'd just say get a PCI-E Firewire 400 card, (((You can read my horror story regard the FW400 from Tascam into the Mac Pro FW800/Sierra.


I run Logic X, Pro Tools 10, Digital Performer on my Quad Core 2.93/Nahelm (I think it's called) with 16g ram and SSD, 10.12.5, no problems or hiccups. You can bypass the MOTU 424 card, (( I loved MOTU as well )) but if you have a DM3200 with its FIREWIRE card, you now have 32 as opposed to MOTU's 24.

Far as the Satellite or Apollo you are on your own
 
Blizzy which Mac tower do you have 2010 or 2012 or older? Glad to hear Sierra is working for you. I think I do remember you thread on FW800 not working out for you. I haven't located your thread but as I recall you had to get a PCIEFW400 card because using an adapter did not work? Thank you for bringing this up. How many lanes did this card require? If I do go with a tower from what can recall there are 4 pcie 2.0 but I am not sure if these are x16 or x4. UAD PCIe and Motu pcie 424 I believe can work in any pcie but leaves one slot after fw400 card. Yet all this may be depending on what year the tower is.

As far as the Motu PCIE 424 I need this. I use 5 2408s. I don't use them all at the same time just as I don't use all of the 32 tracks of the DM 3200 simultaneously during a bulk track take. It's more of a combination as it has a lot to do with the way I have everything set up. For the most part everything I have is pre-wired in two rooms that share a wall. on opposing sides I have all the equipment spaced out and feed into the Motu 2408s which feeds the mixer. I've pre-wired the analog inputs on the mixer to more gear that the 2408s are too far away from. So I have 32 tracks available at the DM 3200 but I have 96 available at the PCI 424. I don't use all this at the same time but it is a mixture of at least 40 tracks in a bulk take. I just route whatever I want on the 2408s before I hit record as i would the DM3200 in post. In post I start making stem tracks and then continue with whatevers next. This is redundant to the 48 tracks of the 2 HD24XRs.

After I pre-wired everything last year a lot of things became much easier but my PC could not handle this workflow. My goal was to not be so dependent on the 2 hd24xr for the primary source. Because then I would either have to continue working with them during the session and they tend to max out. Or I have to pull the drives and transfer the tracks into the DAW which disrupts the workflow.

Over the past couple days the research on Mac Towers has become more extensive. 2010 seems to be just as good as 2012. Some say it's better??? But of course this has a lot to do with upgrades that I am still trying to learn about. And in the end that's what worries me because I need this to work with the DM 3200. These towers seem timeless in expansion as opposed to trash can Mac which seems very proprietary yet so costly and requires so much more expense to expand and don't forget that some of what I already own may never work out. And again on that note that is what worries me.

Please anyone who has some wisdom or horror stories on the compatibility with a DM 3200 and Mac Towers or Mac trash cans enlighten me.
 
I get it now with the Motu 2408's, that's cool, I have the 2010 mac pro, not that I'm looking at it, but I believe it's two slots, left from the video card. ((4 lane PCI E 2.0 slots, and 1-16 Lane for video I believe)) I still have my MOTU 2408, (( you got me thinking now )) heh heh

But yeah, I don't really see how you can go wrong with either 2010-20102 TOWER, especially for updgrading : memory, hd, video cards, swapping out things, etc...

Long as the cards are pci-e and function in the mac PRO, your routing and all should still function the same. (ie) just get a firewire400 card, cant express that enough

I hope others chime in.
 
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Yeah I got the idea for the 2408s from Audiowave. It was an old thread but what he posted got me thinking back then and I saw endless possibilities. I can not remember everthing he said was connected but it was an eye opener. So then I create this monster.

All 5 2408s get connect to separate peripheral TDIF or ADAT of the DM3200. Each MOTU can output banks of 8 from any of its other connections including analogs. I use those for effects processors mainly connected in series with patchbays but 1 2408 I've connected a Tascam 238 syncaset. Anything connected now can get route to the mixer with DM3200/2408 button pushing. You can record via IFFW Card, PCI424 or both. Wanna patch some external effects print directly to DAW thru 424. If you daisy the signal chain, recording to multiple tracks the effects are accumulative on those tracks, and use that however you imagine. Take that effects loop and patch to insert/aux of mixer if you want that to be the source. Again print via 424 or iffw. Now throw in HD24XRs or syncaset in the mix of this work flow or anything that can be use as tape recorder. Do you want to feed into the DAW or do you want the DAW to feed the tape? Or any source to any source for that matter. I was as happy as a pig in s*** until my PC could keep up.

The DM 3200 brings it all together but I will stress that it did not work this beautiful until I had the Master Clock.

Anyway enough ranting just trying to say thanks. Guess it's part of the circle of life. I'm fight the urges of impulse buy on this Mac. Really wanna get this as best as I can.

Who here's using Trash Can Mac with DM3200, 2408s, pcie424? Or HD24XRs? Hows that going? Or is that if you make the switch you MOVE ON?
 
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Been a while since I've trolled the site and caught up on reading some posts and came across this one. For the curious, I thought I would share my setup and some notes.

I do full time pro audio hardware and software dev work in addition to audio production with my DM-4800 so I'm constantly bouncing between various Mac's and Windows laptops.

My main production rig is a 6-core Mac Trashcan I've been pretty happy with since 2013 yet still lusting for something better and more powerful. Very anxious about the next generation MacPro.

Most of my audio production work is on Mavericks as that is a stable setup I'm happy with and do not need, nor am I being forced to upgrade it at this time for my workflow requirements. I do use and test with the Mac Trashcan along with a MacBook Pro and MacBook Air on various macOS versions Mavericks forward. I will be creating a new High Sierra test partition this weekend.

My main DAW is Nuendo 8. Testing with Beta's of Cubase, Nuendo, Pro Tools, Logic and Ableton.

While I still have the MKII FW card, I usually can't live with the 32-ASIO channel limitation, so for over 3-years now I use 4-UAD Apollo units and a couple of Octo TB satellites with DM-4800 mainly as a DAW controller (and patchbay). That gives me enough ASIO channels (except for lame ass Pro Tools 32-ASIO limitation), for all the I/O I need for my outboard gear as well as much better converters that the DM-4800.

I use all 3-TDIF ports via Tascam IF-AE8HR TDIF-AES converters to my Lexicon, TC Electronic and Eventide effects.

A few notes.

When using UAD PCIe cards, only the UAD Octo PCIe cards are compatible with the Trashcan when used via external TB PCIe chassis due to a technical issue I won't bother going into.

On the Mac Trashcan when using a TB PCIe chassis, I have tested using a few of them with the Sonnet FW card and DM-4800 along with UAD Octo PCIe cards with success on macOS Mavericks, Yosemite, El Capitan & first couple of Beta seeds of Sierra. I don't normally use TB PCIe chassis any more as I now use the Apple TB-FW adapter for the DM-4800 and 2-UAD TB Octo satellites connected to my UAD TB Apollo units.

Always miffed me that the MU-100 meter bridge is near useless when using the DM-4800 as a controller and my IFFW-MKII card was idle most of the time while I'm using UAD for my ASIO driver, I figured that I can still use the IFFW-MKII ASIO driver in macOS at the same time as UAD ASIO driver by creating an Aggregate Device of DM-4800 and UAD. By creating direct mono or stereo outputs (up to 32) in Nuendo (or Cubase) I can assign Nuendo output channels to the IFFW-MKII ASIO channels and monitor on the meter bridge with DM-channels muted and use UAD stereo output at the same time to mix audio through using DM in DAW controller remote mode. A band-aid I know, but still helpful in my workflow.
 
Audiowave I got questions:

I figured that I can still use the IFFW-MKII ASIO driver in macOS at the same time as UAD ASIO driver by creating an Aggregate Device of DM-4800 and UAD.

This got me thinking. Is it even possible to Aggregate more than 2 device at a time? Such as DM3200 to firewire of mac pro tower (even if that means fw400 pcie card), with Motu pcie424 for 2408s, and UAD pcie? Can all that work simultaneously?
 
Yes, it is possible to Aggregate more than 2-devices. Really depends on how well the drivers for each device get along with each other. In theory, you can Aggregate all audio devices that are installed and are on-line including built in audio.

Note that using Aggregate device will add latency and sometimes devices will not sync together or fall out of sync with one another. I only use Aggregate device in mixing where I don't usually need best case lowest latency.

On my MacPro trash can I have my 4-Apollo units as one device, the IF-FW card and the built in Mac digital output.

You can't create or add a UAD PCIe card to Aggregate as it is not an audio device that has I/O ports. UAD PCIe and UAD Satellites are DSP Audio Accelerators which are different than audio interface devices and should work just fine.
 
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Ok so I saw an Apollo 8 duo (thunderbolt) yesterday for $800 at a pawn shop. I'm not certain if I would be able to access the plugins because previous owner may have create account and won't have the password and such, is that how that works?

The other thing I'm questioning is I was almost certain of buying an Mac Pro tower 12 core 128gb Ram... but while at pawn shop it looking over the Apollo the possibilities crossed my mind. Could I feed Motu 2408s to Apollo via adat to get in the trash can mac (as oppose to tower with Pcie)?

I eventually would need to buy more Apollos or other Thunderbolt interfaces that maybe compatible? Right now I currently use 5 motu 2408s. I don't think I could ever get rid of those because of all the TDIF and adat connections which allows me to use 2 Alesis HD24s and DM 3200 with lots of flexibility. But it seems I'm stuck with the Pcie 424 and Mac pro tower unless something like this is possible?

Current setup route:
3)banks of 8 tracks for Synths and such->Hd24xr->2408s or DM3200

3 banks of 8 tracks guitars drums vocals->external pre's->Hd24xr->2408 or DM3200

Existing options to get ITB is IFFW or PCIE

With new trashcan the above would then route ITB from Apollo TB or IFFW. Does adding this seem degrading? Or are there any concerns I may be missing?
 
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Not sure I can answer all your questions or give you specific advice but can offer some thoughts.

If you need all or many of the features of the DM-3200 as an audio mixer, then that is the hub of your rig and everything else has to work around or within it. In that case the Apollo could be useful for extra I/O into the DM-3200 and/or used as an external processor.

The UAD Apollo can send or accept ADAT signals, but like any other digital device that receives clocking via ADAT, it may require you to use that external device as the clock master so WC from UAD Apollo or your Antelope would likely be preferred.

There are converter devices other than MOTU that can convert ADAT to TDIF, TDIF to ADAT, TDIF to analog and so on...

You could consider using your 2nd DM-3200 slot for ADAT, TDIF or analog I/O providing you can find an expansion card to purchase.

Apollo has much better converters than the DM-3200 which may or may not be something important or necessary to you.

UAD PCIe & UAD Thunderbolt Satellite are the same. One works on a motherboard, one works wired via TB cable.

Important to me at time of purchase of Mac Pro Trashcan was it was the only new Mac that was 6-core and above capable and built to be expandable, (that was really only wishful thinking) and had multiple Thunderbolt 2 ports, 4k multi-monitor capable, above average graphics, small and quite all of which were requirements.

What I can tell you is most of my recording chores these days are done remotely so I mostly only mix (and do audio product development) with my DM-4800, I don't normally use or need many of the DM mixer features so it gets used mainly as a DAW controller. With all my analog/digital gear working in a Hybrid method using 4-UAD TB Apollo units & 2-UAD TB Satellites, I have incredible routing options, flexability and the absolute best audio experience I've ever had.
 

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