Distortion on Mastering

ristst

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Neo 2488
Hello all,

NEO 2488 question related to mastering.

I'm having a major problem getting a good clean master, specifically on the bass track. During normal playback I have tons of headroom, I can crank the bass (or any other channel) up as loud as I want with no distortion at all, it sounds fantastic.

But during mastering it all changes. The bass track pops loudly and I'm forced to lower the volume to the point where it's nearly inaudible. I tried compressing it more (I tried maxing it) and that helps, but it still pops in places. I went into the mixdown tools and boosted the compression on the lows, but I'm still having problems getting a good mix.

If I then attempt the "final mix", it's a lost cause....it's that much worse. So far all my masters have been the first master, I've never been able to get a good sound running the "final mix".

So I lowered EVERYTHING, and I can get a decent mix where the bass is audible in mix...but burning that to a CD and playing it on a deck I have to boost the volume massively. Something isn't right.

Anyone care to discuss mixing techniques?
 
I'd suggest having a look at the EQ, especially around 400 Hz, as that area gets muddy pretty quick. You might boost it to give the bass come body in the initial mix, but it will tend to blow up once you get into mastering.

I set the track EQ for bass at +1/1.8 KHz, -4/400 Hz, and +1/ 90 Hz, which works well for a fretless Fender Jazz (which I use on most of my work).

I get the overall mix to sound "right" in the monitors, then let it play through the mastering controls on the DP-24, but I don't hit record to apply them. I play my mix back through them to get an overall feel of where the mix will go when it's been mastered. This playback lets me know if I need to revisit my EQ on any tracks, as I want each one to be distinct, and have its own "space" in the final.

Once I'm satisfied with the mix, I export from the Tascam via USB, and bring it into Sound Forge Pro 11, where I bring up iZotope Ozone 5 and select one of the mastering presets I've built, based on the type of song (rock, ballad, etc.), and then adjust accordingly.

Here's one example of a finished track, and then for more of a ballad feel, here's another one.

I had the original 2488, then went to the DP-24, so I'm not familiar with the mastering tools on the Neo...I'm guessing that they're probably similar to what I have on the DP-24, but don't know that for sure.

I guess the gist of it is (at least, for my workflow), use the mastering tools in the Tascam to audition your mix, but if possible, do the final mastering stage where you have the most control over each step of the process. For me, that's Ozone within Sound Forge Pro. Also, use the EQ on each track to insure each track has its own space, without clashing with other tracks. Auditioning the mix with the tools on will let you hear if you need to go back and revisit a track's EQ settings.

Also, make sure you play that mix on as many different sets of speakers as you can, from your monitors, to headphones, the little speakers in a laptop, in a car...the goal being to make it sound good in ALL those places when it's done.

Mixing and mastering are arts in and of themselves, so do a lot of reading, try suggestions on work you've done, and you'll come up with a workflow that suits your needs and gets you the best possible sound.

Good luck!
 
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I would advise you to NOT integrate mastering into mixing. These two things are separate processes for a reason: they are totally different things, and you'll never get it right this way. Try to create the best mix you can, with above tips, and checking this mix on as many playback devices as you can (no matter how high you have to turn up the volume). When you're satisfied, mix down to stereo and then start the next step: mastering.
 
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I run an online mastering biz; have 5 albums (two more this summer) and a bunch of single tracks, and several specialty projects to my credit. I agree with Arjan; mixing and mastering should be treated as separate functions. If anything, the average peak levels (RMS) of the mix should be handled with the idea of delivering the best (meaning one with ample head room) stereo track to the mastering stage.

RE: Bass: this is one of the most misunderstood frequency elements in a mix; a lot of folks think it's best to boost the lowest frequencies (and/or the mids as previously mentioned). Usually, the opposite is true - attenuating or flattening out the 400-600 range as well as the sub harmonics by either rolling off or brickwall-EQing everything below 30hz. It depends on the character, performance and nature of the track and arrangement of the tune itself.

If you're interested I did a small blurb about it on my website. DISCLAIMER!!! This isn't a commercial invitation nor promotion! Just info only. :)

http://www.gliskrecords.com/#!blog/c3bm

Scroll down past the 'Mid/Side' Stereo article.

CaptDan
 
Hello all,

Thank you for the answers and excuse the delay in replying. Also, sorry for the length!

If I may, my mistake in saying "mixing" where I should have said "mastering'. I do understand that they are separate functions, that was a slip of the keyboard/brain. But I won't pretend to be an expert, and I welcome any and all assistance.

So first, recording the internal stereo master track is what I referred to in the OP. Normal playback sounds very good...no channels peaking, bass and vocals have some internal compression or reverb, but nothing fancy. But entering Mixdown mode and recording the internal stereo master track is where I'm having the distortion problem, mostly the bass. So I took some time and read some of the threads on the DP-24.

NOTE- I left the EQ flat during mixdown, mainly for basic troubleshooting purposes, and also because adjusting it didn't seem to help a lot with the distortion.

**IMPORTANT**
After reading the forums on the DP-24, I saw where some said using built in effects were distorting in the mixdown mode, so I started there. I got good results! I'm also using a Fender Jazz , fretted.

To begin with removed the internal compression from the bass and recorded the stereo track again, and it was noticeably different...much better in a lot of places. I ended up re-recording one problematic bass track using a stomp-box compressor, and then recorded the stereo master with no internal compression on the bass. NO DISTORTION AND LOTS OF HEADROOM!

One lesson learned...rather than screw around with it I'll use this method in the future, at least in reference to the bass.

But this post has gone on long enough. I have several more questions if that's OK, specifcally in relation to Mastering, and the "mastering mode". Also I'd like to compare what everyone is using on a few basic settings, such EQ and compression.

Thanks in advance for the expert help!!
 
I do all my bass tracks with the bass (either the fretless Jazz or the fretted P Bass) going through a Tech 21 VT Deluxe pedal, on which I've built and stored some presets that I use most often. That makes EQ on the bass track minimally necessary, and generally used primarily to minimize "muddiness" and to seat it well in the mix.

My general EQ "recipe" for bass is to add just +1 at about 1.8-1.9 kHz to bring the upper register out a bit, then drop -4 at 400-450 Hz to clear up mud as this range tends to "bloom" quite a bit in the mix, and finally I add another +1 at about 90 Hz, so when I drop low, the bottom end is well pronounced, yet again, not too boomy or muddy. EQ is like seasoning on food...a little goes a long way.

I don't use any on board compression at all...I complete the mix on the DP-24, then export the mix to my computer, where I use iZotope's Ozone for mastering, where I have much more control over all aspects, including their multiband compression. Again, I've made my own presets within Ozone to use as start points, based on the song (rock, ballad, etc.), and then make whatever adjustments I need in order to get the best sound I can.

The only onboard effect I use at all on the DP-24 is reverb, mainly for the vocals. I run my guitars through a pedalboard, so the sound coming out of the amp that's being picked up by the SM-57 and brought into the DP-24 is exactly what I want for the track being done.

When I mix, I'm primarily focused on the overall balance, the "placement" of tracks in the stereo field (achieved by setting pans), and applying a touch of EQ to insure each track sits well, is distinct, and doesn't "collide" with any other tracks. I try and listen to that mix on as many different speakers as I can, in both stereo and in mono, and make sure it sounds as good as possible on all of them, because we don't know what people will be using to listen to our work when it's finished.

Above all else, have fun with your music!
 
When you get bad results while using a basic FX module like a compressor, and removing the effect clears the problem up, the answer isn't, "Okay, I guess I learned to never use that again!" The correct answer is, "I guess I need to learn how that effect works and how to set it up."

Compression is a great tool for bass tracks. Sounds to me like you were hitting the input on the effect too hard, or had make up gain set super high. Do some reading and try it again.
 
I appreciate the reply, but I believe you misconstrue my post entirely. Don't assume I have no experience with compression....I've been using a myriad of different rack mount models for 3 decades, and that doesn't include stomp boxes. So first, my answer was NOT "Okay, I guess I learned to never use that again!" Rather, my answer is "I found a solution that works best in MY situation", and that solution is to use external rather than internal compression on my bass tracks. Certainly not tossing compression entirely...!

FYI - I considered that I was overdriving the input, in fact I tested several different configurations of the compression settings, adjusting the input and output (make-up), the ratio, and the knee. It's not happening whatsoever during normal playback, only during the recording of the stereo master where there are audible "pops" on the bass track...and only on the bass track.

In this case it's not a matter of a lack of knowledge in relation to compression. It really boils down to figuring out how to get a good result when recording the internal stereo master track, on *this* particular machine.

And I'm beginning to agree with those who say they get much better results by keeping the onboard compression and effects to a minimum.
 
Gotcha. No offense intended. But your post made it sound like you had concluded after one bad experience that the secret to a good mix was leaving compression turned off.
 
Oh, none taken whatsoever. I won't lie and say I know much of anything when it comes to advanced mixing and mastering, so for me the best thing is to keep it simple. But darned if that pop in the bass track was annoying, not to mention time consuming. That's really what I meant...I spent *way* too much time figuring that one out.

So now, on to MASTERING. I have a few more questions about that, but I'll wait for the next post if that's OK.
 

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