Dr-100 Is the limiter Single or Dual Channel?

[MilesThatch]

Good day, everyone.

I use a DR-100 for vocal recording, I are recording 2x commentators / speakers and have 2x hearsed mics recording to the left and right channels respectively. Now the DR-100 is capable for some amazing audio quality, however sometimes in the middle of a commentary, the voice can spike from things like laughter and yelling which forces me to drop the gain to accommodate enough headroom to fit those yelling vocals without clipping. However that significantly raises the noise floor when I gain the vocals in post. The DR-100 is capable of AMAZING soundling crystal clear voice overs at moderate gain, even I was amazed, but those screams get clipped.

How the recorder has it's own built in - limiter. Which is fantastic, however the question is - does it limit both L and R channels at once or does it limit one channel at a time?

So say one speaker is speaking at normal volume but the 2nd one gets a coughing fit. Will the limiter limit BOTH channels?

 

[GTBecker]

I'm surprised this hasn't been answered but I found that the answer, at least to me, isn't straightforward. I don't have a DR-100, though, but I ran a test on my DR-44WL which, I suspect, is sufficiently similar to the DR-100 to make the test valid.

I fed both Mic (unbalanced 1/4") inputs with a common 1kHz tone through 20dB switchable pads and adjusted both levels to -12dBFS, photo IMG_20190305_112807176.jpg. The Limiter function was switched Off. Link on Channels 3 (external Left) and 4 (Right) was enabled. Note that both channels indicate ~-12dB and the Peak (clipping) indicators were both off. The monitored tones (in headphones) were clean.

With the Limiter function still Off, I bypassed the 20dB pad on the Right input; the Right channel input was then effectively +8dBFS, normally well into clipping. The display still indicated -12dB on the Left channel, and the Right channel was "pinned" at 0dB with the Peak indicator On, photo IMG_20190305_112840856.jpg. The Right signal was loud and distorted, seriously clipped.

I then enabled the Limiter function. The Right level display remained at 0dB, but its Peak indicator was Off; the Left level fell from -12dB to -20dB, photo IMG_20190305_112930591.jpg. The Right signal was loud but clean; the Left signal was quieter and clean.

So, I believe this shows that the limiter attenuation necessary to reduce the Right input level to below clipping (8dB in this case) was simultaneously applied to the Left input also.

This suggests that your coughing commentator would briefly reduce both channels if the Limiter function were enabled. In the DR-100 the channels are not independently limited.

Later edit, after some pondering:
While the DR-100 is a very capable machine, the DR-44 - in your application - offers an advantage: the limiter function can be unlinked so each channel is independently limited, just as you require.

 

[MilesThatch]

Thanks for the test.

I really don't want to be upgrading considering that I got the DR100 at full price when it was out... around $500... ouch. So dropping another 360 on a new DR does not really make sense just to get a separate limiter.

I could probably find a rack-mount compressor with a preamp to sit in between the mics and the field recorder. And record via that for all around a 100 bucks off ebay.

 

[GTBecker]

> ... I could probably find a rack-mount compressor with a preamp...

Sad that you would need an AC-powered rackmount box to feed a small battery-powered recorder, but I went looking for a portable tw0-channel preamp/limiter and found none, although a Sound Devices MP-2 would do. Still, that's $400, used. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sound-Devi...eamp-w-MS-Stereo-Decoder-Phantom/283398033439

ART or Behringer should whip one up.

Alternatively. you might just record at 12dB or so lower - or have your cougher give you a few mic checks to set levels to.

> ... that significantly raises the noise floor when I gain the vocals in post...

Noisy mics? 10 or 15dB of gain in post shouldn't be too objectionable, methinks.

 

[MilesThatch]

So either I gotta put up with the cracks or record at lower volume.

Man, it's kinda disappointing since I've actually gotten crystal clear audio with almost no noise whatsoever from the recorder at very little gain.

If I lower the gain to leave more headroom for those rare occasional spikes, that noise floor will creep up during post when I bring the vocal level back up. So basically I introduce noise into a couple of hours of recording to account for maybe a total of 3 seconds of pops and sound spikes

 

[GTBecker]

Another consideration is to record at the lower level to avoid clipping and then use a noise reduction function in DAW post.

I use Audacity and have found its Effect/Noise Removal effect very useful. You need to select a short sample of the noise alone (a quiet pause in the conversation will do) for it to learn what to remove in the frequency domain, very effectively in my experience.

 

[MilesThatch]

Oof I gotta say i'm not a fan of Noise Reduction. Passive or Sample Based. I used many tools like ReaFir for ReaPlugs, among others, and the noise reduction does a number on the vocals. I find there are applications where noise reduction is just not acceptable. I'd like to prevent the issue instead of fixing it in post. I record off a battery only and I try to record at a higher gain with limiting. The limiting works as it is. It's just the fact that if a loud noise happens on Left channel, it also ducks the Right channel

The Artifacts from noise reduction and whatnot are not horrible but they're there and they're noticeable. It just doesn't sound good. To be honesty if it comes down to it. An occasional Clip from a cough once in a while if it gets me to keep noise away from the rest of the recording.

 

[GTBecker]

Quieter mics?