Hear main mix in control room monitors?

[JoelB]

I’m a new user, made my first recording, and I’m trying to hear the main mix playback, the meters are flashing so there’s signal but I can’t hear it on the control room monitors. I found a post where a guy said he figured it out but he failed to elaborate exactly. I’ve got the SD Main Mix return pressed, main fader up, not hearing anything. The post mentioned the 22/23 as the channel to hear it on but not hearing it. Help!

Joel

 

[-mjk-]

What is the source you selected to monitor?

 

[JoelB]

I want to hear the stereo L/R mix (track 23/24) that was recorded.

Joel

 

[-mjk-]

Yes, you said that. What did you have currently selected for the monitor source?

 

[JoelB]

All channels were set to MTR, if that is what you mean, but I tried setting to Live also with no luck.

 

[-mjk-]

All channels were set to MTR, if that is what you mean, but I tried setting to Live also with no luck.

No, that's not what I mean.

From the User Manual, Page 22:

CONTROL ROOM L/R jacks These standard TRS jacks are analog outputs. Use these to monitor signals from the MAIN MIX L/R bus or PFL/AFL L/R bus. o TRS (Tip: HOT, Ring: COLD, Sleeve: GND)

PHONES jack Use this standard stereo jack to connect stereo headphones. Use an adapter to connect headphones with a mini plug. Use this to monitor signals from the MAIN MIX L/R bus or PFL/AFL L/R bus. (See “Block diagram” on page 160.)
---

If you are monitoring the PFL/AFL bus you won't hear the MAIN MIX bus.

 

[Mark Richards]

Maybe this post will help:
https://www.tascamforums.com/thread...g-feedback-on-real-world-use.7790/#post-37533

 

[JoelB]

No, I read that post already. There is definitely a l/r mix recorded. It’s just not coming through the control room or headphone outs. All the recorded channels do except those two. With the right switches set, I’ve found I can hear I think a mono mix of it controlled by Mon1 with the SD Main Mix return and AFL button pressed, but I should be able to hear main mix controlled by the red Main fader in the monitors and I’m not.

So for example let’s say you don’t record-enable any tracks but you hit the record button according to the manual it should record anything coming in on the channels to a stereo mix file. I want to play that stereo file and hear it in my monitors. I hit play, I see the main peak meters bumping so there is signal, I press SD return to main, still no sound.

here is a little video:
https://share.icloud.com/photos/0iLxQdDIguSn6yJeg04wtGPnQ

On every other system or mixer I’ve ever used this would be working and I’m completely mystified what the deal is with this one...

 

[-mjk-]

I'm sorry, but I can't provide any further help. You haven't confirmed whether you are monitoring the PFL/AFL bus, or the MAIN bus. My guess is, since you are not hearing the main bus, that your monitoring source is not set to MAIN.

Clearly stated: MAKE SURE ALL THE PFL/AFL BUTTONS ARE NOT PUSHED DOWN.

 

[Mark Richards]

The TASCAM video mj posted above seems pretty straight forward for listening on the Control Room Monitor bus.

Neither mj nor I own a Model 24/16/12. So there isn't much more we can do to help than consult the scattered/inadequately explained information in the OM.

OM Page 58: Troubleshooting - No sound is output.

• Are the input sources and MODE switches set properly?
• Are the channel faders raised to suitable levels?
• Is the MAIN fader raised to a suitable level?
• Is a monitoring system correctly connected to the PHONES jack or CONTROL ROOM L/R jacks?
• Is the monitoring system set up correctly?
• Is the PHONES knob or CONTROL ROOM knob placed to a suitable level?
• Is the SD MAIN MIX RETURN switch on (pushed in, during playback of anything other than a stereo master file) **

** That last bullet point is typical TASCAM owner manual carelessness/misinformation.

When the SD MAIN MIX RETURN button is pushed IN it's ON.
On the Control Room Bus you will hear stereo playback of the stereo master that's been mixed/recorded to the SD card on Track 23 (Main Mix Left)and Track 24 (Main Mix Right).

When the SD MAIN MIX RETURN button is OUT it's OFF.

On the Control Room Bus you will hear a 2-channel (L/R) stereo signal from the "Live", PC, or MTR playback of Tracks 1~22, IF the Channel MAIN button is ON for Tracks 1~22.

On the Control Room Bus you will hear a 2-channel (L/R) mono signal from the "Live", PC, or MTR Tracks 1~22, IF the Channel PFL Button is ON for Tracks 1~22.
​

 

[-mjk-]

• Is the SD MAIN MIX RETURN switch on (pushed in, during playback of anything other than a stereo master file) **

** That last bullet point is typical TASCAM owner manual carelessness.
When the SD MAIN MIX RETURN button is pushed IN it's ON.
On the Control Room Bus you will hear stereo playback of the stereo master that's been mixed/recorded to the SD card on Track 23 (Main Mix Left)and Track 24 (Main Mix Right).

When the SD MAIN MIX RETURN button is OUT it's OFF.
On the Control Room Bus you will hear a 2-channel (L/R) stereo signal from the "Live", PC, or MTR playback of Tracks 1~22, IF the MAIN button is ON for Tracks 1~22.

On the Control Room Bus you will hear a 2-channel (L/R) mono signal from the "Live", PC, or MTR Tracks 1~22, IF the PFL Button is ON for Tracks 1~22.

So that explains why so many users are recording a mixdown and are then perplexed when they can't hear the mixdown back on the monitors. This corresponds exactly to listening to a tape machine on the playback head, but how many Model 24 users were even alive when tape machines were the normal medium?

 

[JoelB]

Well... nope, the above doesn't work either. Tried all the suggestions, read all the pages, I think the functionality might be missing to hear the recording immediately in the control room.

The manual does say it plays on the Main bus and it looks that way based on the meters, but also there are couple places in the manual that say you can 'monitor the main bus on the Control room or the headphone' .... Still no luck with immediate playback of the 23/24 l/r mix after recording, however:

I can export the L/R tracks and then use the SD Play button to hear the stereo mix play back on 21/22 but in terms of actually, after a live take going "hmm, lets hear what that sounds like" it looks like I'm going to have to get a second set of monitors to just hear the stereo mix on the Main bus, unless I want to sit around after every take waiting for it to export the whole track - unless someone can come up with a way to make the obvious work the way I would expect... I can hear a mono version right away if I hit AFL on Mon 1 or Mon2, so I guess all is not lost in terms of quick check of the mix...

 

[-mjk-]

Joel, at this point I suggest you contact the seller and get some support from them.

 

[J Ryan]

If you look at the block diagram the control room and phones pulls its audio from the main mix bus, and the main out d/a return is after that point in the signal chain, and only routes to the main out and monitor outputs. The only routing from the master chain to the control room outs being the monitor AFL.

It's a strange way to route it, and I feel like it kind of prevents people primarily using headphones from using it 100% effectively.

 

[Mark Richards]

JoelB, in summary according to the OM, the video in Post #9, and your own testing

The Block Diagram clearly shows the MAIN MIX L/R bus linked to the Control Room bus.

The SD MAIN RETURN button is disengaged to route the MAIN MIX L/R bus (Channels/Tracks 1~22) to the Control Room bus for monitoring on the Control Room circuit. This implies that when the button is engaged, the SD MAIN RETURN (MTR Tracks 23/24) would be present on the Control Room bus.

According to the Sound-On-Sound review of the Model 24, "The Main stereo mix bus L-R signal is delivered to the outside world via the usual pair of balanced three-pin XLRs. This signal is routed pre the [Master] fader to the control-room and headphone outputs".

This TASCAM video (at about 8:45 in) says the SD MAIN RETURN Button has to be engaged, and the playback signal of (MTR Tracks 23/24) uses the Track 21/22 Bluetooth Channel circuit. It also states that any time the master transport REC button is pressed ON, the stereo mix of Channels 1~22 will be recorded on MTR Tracks 23/24, even if no Channel REC buttons are active.

BUT:
The Block Diagram indicates the SD MAIN RETURN button is engaged to hear the SD MAIN MIX RETURN (MTR Tracks 23/24) on the MAIN OUT bus (and disengages the MAIN MIX L/R bus from the MAIN OUT bus). It appears the Block Diagram doesn't identify a link between the SD MAIN MIX RETURN bus, the MAIN OUT bus, and the Control Room bus. In the Block Diagram the engage/disengage button appears only to affect routing of the MAIN MIX L/R bus and the SD MAIN MIX RETURN to the MAIN OUT bus. Your experience appears to confirm this.
​

Is it any wonder that people get flumuxed and frustrated? All of this should be made crystal clear in the OM. But TASCAM can't be bothered hiring competent technical writers.

PS: If any Model 24/16/12 users should be kind enough to resolve the confusion by posting a definitive answer, please use the precise TASCAM terminology (as I've done) when describing the various, knobs, buttons, buses, etc. Several years on this web site helping others informs me that while anything less may be crystal clear to you, it will only serve to further confuse others.

 

[-mjk-]

So, could someone please write a definitive post that can clear this up once and for all? How to use the Monitor section and monitor your session, overdubs and mixdown? We could then start a sticky section for this forum. This is going to come up again and again and needs to be addressed.

 

[JoelB]

my current solution is to route both control room and main outs to my speakers (they have both 1/4" and RCA inputs (on different cables). Then I can listen to the stereo mix of what I just recorded via the Main outputs without having to export the audio and use SD Play.

 

[Logrinn]

Hi everybody,

New member here and I thought I'd write about my findings about this question when using my Model 12.
First of all, as most probably know, there are differences between model 16/24 and Model 12.
On of these are that the Model 12 doesn't have a Control Room out. Only a Main Out.

With that said, I can confirm that it's a very straight forward process to record to the man mix and then listening back to this recording.

I have several sources - drum machine, synth as well as microphones - connected to the different inputs.
With the Mode switch set to Live, and the Main switch on (pressed down) on respective input strip and the Main fader up, I hear whatever I'm playing on (synth, guitar via microphone or drum machine) in my powered monitors. These are connected to the Main output L R.
When I press the Rec button ie "•", everything that's going into the mixer is being recorded.

After I'm done, I rewind and press the SD Main Mix Return-button (that cuts off all sounds going into the mixer) and when pressing the Play (transport)-button I hear everything I've just played.

As mentioned it's very straight forward, but since the OP have a Model 24 - and as I can figure out by looking at the block diagram from the manual for the 24, the Main Mix recording on the SD card only goes to the Main output (and the monitor/phones out). The only way to get it to the Control Room output is by using the AFL buttons. But that seem to also send both the L and R signal to the outputs making the result in essence a mono source.

A simple way for the OP to verify this is by connecting the powered speakers to the Main out instead of the Control Room out.

 

[musicluvr66]

Logrinn

Does this playback process work if you are recording into a DAW and trying to playback through it? I'm currently having that problem.

 

[Logrinn]

I'm not sure what you mean.
The process I described concerns how to record to the main mix and then monitor what's been recorded to the SD-card.

But of course you could also specify the Model 12 (as in my case) to be the audio driver for your DAW (Reaper in my case) in your computer and use the mixer as an audio interface.
Then by selecting the Mode switches to Live you send your signal in to your DAW and record that on your computer. When finished you can then listen back by making sure that the Mode switch is set to PC.
Is that what you had in mind?