MacOS: beware of future updates

[Marvel]

This might interest us Mac users:

https://developer.apple.com/documentation/security/notarizing_your_app_before_distribution

Looks like it will get harder and harder with every update of macOS to use legacy software. Somewhere along the way this will mean we have to stop updating if we want to keep using the DM.

 

[Arjan P]

I almost don't dare say it, but this is hardly an issue on Windows. Drivers can be an issue, and maybe finding supporting hardware (like FW cards/ chipsets), but I have software from Windows XP days running on my current Windows 10 in the studio without problems.

So there is that option as well...

 

[Peter Batah]

I have to agree with @Arjan P . I still run my external DAW (SoundScape ReD32 - Rock Solid) on an HP xw8200 that runs Windows XP with 4G of ram. Also have Cubase v.5.x running on the same machine. Thank you @Marvel for bringing that article to our attention. Much appreciated!

 

[Marvel]

We're not starting a Mac/Windows discussion here.
It's important for people who don't want to choose, for example if you want to keep using Logic.

 

[waterstrum]

Thanks... I'm also a bit dismayed that Apple will no longer permit 32 bit apps.
The next version of OSX is supposed to be the cut off.
I do understand the reason, but I have many apps that will not be updated.
The DM is the most important.
I'll probably hang at Mojave for a couple of years.
Maybe Tascam will rewrite the DM stuff in 64 bits?
Sorry, just kidding.

 

[waterstrum]

I have no bias about Windows vs. Mac.
Just too many years in the Mac platform and it would be so hard to switch at this point.
I'm hoping Apple will figure out a way to port necessary legacy software.
Sorry, just kidding... I doubt Apple will ever care about legacy.

 

[Peter Batah]

We're not starting a Mac/Windows discussion here.
It's important for people who don't want to choose, for example if you want to keep using Logic.

I use Logic on an older Macbook Pro. Definitely something to be concerned about. Have a good one @Marvel

 

[Marvel]

I have been thinking about this whole driver/firmware support thing for a while now. Been looking at the Behringer(cough cough) X32
Later this year I will be moving to a new place, this will probably be my opportunity to say farewell to this wonderful mixing desk and buy the X32.

I don't want to keep dragging this legacy behind me all the time.

 

[Peter Batah]

@Marvel Funny you should mention that. The fellow that I purchased my 3200 from approx 2 years ago did just that. Let us know if / when the transition happens. Have a wonderful day!

 

[-mjk-]

I have been thinking about this whole driver/firmware support thing for a while now. Been looking at the Behringer(cough cough) X32
Later this year I will be moving to a new place, this will probably be my opportunity to say farewell to this wonderful mixing desk and buy the X32.

I don't want to keep dragging this legacy behind me all the time.

I bought an X32 2 weeks ago. There are a few limitations when recording, but mixing is fantastic. There is even a body of apps written for it, including automation.

 

[Peter Batah]

@-mjk- "There are a few limitations when recording" Care to elaborate. Thank you

 

[-mjk-]

This is totally OT, but:

The inputs are assigned in blocks of 8. So, while Behringer uses the term "quasi-inline mode" you cannot monitor more than 24 tracks of audio coming back from a recorder (of any kind) unless you use 2-tracks and the recorder's mixer (like monitoring Reaper's Master Track). The forums talk about this a lot. I don't record anything in the DAW except the 2-mix, so it's not an issue for me. Recording tracks in the DP-32 is still the fastest and cleanest way to get basic tracks for mixing in a DAW with the X32.

If you're considering an X32, there are 2 things you should know:

1. The Midas M32 is now out of production. They have a new model, the M32 Live. The difference is the buttons, and the addition of the X-Live dual SD card recorder/USB interface expansion card. What that means is, vendors are getting rid of their current inventory for ridiculous prices (and if you really want that expansion card, just buy it). I was quoted USD 2,550 for a brand-new-in-the-box Midas M32. The reason that I did not buy it is because I live in Taiwan, and it would have cost me and additional 6% sales tax, $1,000 shipping, plus 15% import duty. The X32 was in the local Behringer warehouse, and although higher priced than US based sales, it was considerably cheaper than importing one myself. If I was in the US, I'd be typing this sitting next to an M32 instead.
2. The OS and software is in common between both consoles. You should have a read of this gentleman's site: https://sites.google.com/site/patrickmaillot/x32

 

[Peter Batah]

@-mjk- Thank you for that information. Much appreciated. Have a good one. Enjoy your new X32. Make great music!

 

[-mjk-]

Thanks Peter. It's been a long time. Good to be back mixing behind an actual desk.

 

[Arjan P]

If any board would be replacing my DM3200, the ones I looked at (Behringer, Allen & Heath, Midas, Presonus) lack a few things that I'd dearly miss:
- None of them have hardware inserts, and
- None have a higher sample rate than 48 kHz (no 96k)

Well, guess I'll stick to the DM and Windows as long as possible..

 

[-mjk-]

Apparently, the USB interface in the Behringer/Midas consoles operates at 196 kHz, so it's probably a firmware upgrade in the future. I'm not real clear about it; just read some threads on the subject.

 

[-mjk-]

@Peter Batah the X32 has all of that great vintage gear I used to use in the real world; Fairchild, 1176, LA2A, Pultec etc., and like 50 more. When recording to my DP-32, the X32 is the biggest outboard FX unit, ever, lol. I also have a Soundcraft Ghost 32, and with the Ghost mic pre + EQ and the X32 dynamics, I'm getting the best of a true hybrid studio, and I would to say that my DP-32 tracks stand up to scrutiny, because I'm not at all limited to what's available on the DP-32. I only use the line inputs on the DP-32.

 

[Marvel]

Thanks for all the info on this, @-mjk-. Just a few things that caught my eye:
- What exactly does this limitation mean? If I record track after track, instead of 32 tracks at the same time, would this mean I still can't send more than 24 tracks from Logic to the X32 to monitor? So I should always route everything to the master and send that to the X32 for monitoring?
- (a bit) related: can I use all 24 faders for remote control? I read somewhere that just the 8 faders to the right would work.
- So many effects is awesome, but is there a limitation on the number of effects one can use on a channel? And can you use every effect separately on every channel, each with its own settings?

The 48kHz limitation is somewhat disappointing. How does the desk fair with older music already in 96kHz in the DAW?

Thanks!
Marcel

 

[-mjk-]

Hi Marcel.

If I record track after track, instead of 32 tracks at the same time, would this mean I can't send more than 24 tracks from Logic to the X32 to monitor? So I should always route everything to the master and listen there?

Yes, that is correct. It's not an actual recording console with a monitor mix bus. You can monitor the channel local inputs, (the XLRs), or the card (and some other options), in blocks of 8. Many small projects run 16x16, so one layer is inputs from the console and one layer is "tape returns" from the DAW.

can I use all 24 faders for remote control? I read somewhere that just the 8 faders to the right would work.

With X32Reaper, you can use the entire console as a control surface, but not with the audio engines. The 8 fader limitation that you're talking about, is just the right side of the console's 8 faders and DAW mode again, not using the audio engines in the console. I prefer to use the DAW simply as a playback device, with no plug-ins and not using the master track. All the track levels are set at unity, and I use the console itself for mixing. There will be a complete automation system for Reaper coming very soon. I have the privilege of personally working on the test end of this project.

So many effects is awesome, but is there a limitation on the number of effects one can use on a channel? And can you use every effect separately on every channel, each with its own settings

8 true stereo/16 mono FX in 8 virtual racks. You should read the manual, but some are insert FX and some are send FX. There are something like 50 or 60 different FX.

The 48kHz limitation is somewhat disappointing. How does the desk fait with older music already in 96kHz in the DAW

Sorry Marcel, I wouldn't know. The USB interface operates at 48 kHz in both directions. I only record in 24b x 48k, and to my ear, this sounds as good as anything I ever did on a Studer 2" machine so, that's good enough for what I do. I will tell you this: The mic pres, EQ and dynamics are about as good as anything I've ever used in the analog world. And the digital recreations of the FX to my ear, are quite accurate (having actually used all those things 20 to 30 years ago).

 

[Marvel]

Thanks! I will study the manual when it comes to it. We have to sell the house first, and before we move to a new location, I will (maybe!) sell the DM. Then it will be time to make a decision about its successor.
As I am mostly using the desk in a home studio situation, there's still the possibility of buying a separate audio interface and one or two remote control desks like the Mackie.