Model 16 vs Model 12 comparison

[JSchmo_Bass]

File this under pleasant distraction...

So there was a very good B stock deal that popped up on a Model 16 last week, and thus now it has arrived at my home today and is sitting next to my Model 12.

Although I love my M12, I have been struggling with #channels for tracking my band live. The M16 “upgrade” is actually only +2 usable pre amp channels as far as I can tell, since Channel 13/14 is only for Bluetooth (or a phone or whatever the RCA jacks would be for...). But that +2 is enough to potentially let me set up our band with drum mics and vocals in better ways both for recording and (someday) live gigs. Also nice have 2 aux bus’s for fold backs channels without losing the Fx.

There are certainly some trade offs on features ..and of course I have been wondering about the impact on mixing in analog vs digital domain thing. So I am going to do some comparisons. So I have the two units side by side. I am thinking to do some comparison mixes if anyone is interested. Let me know your ideas for a test set up.

will sell of the two one eventually of course...

 

[JSchmo_Bass]

Just following up to say that as I get into it, finding this is super interesting and worthy of a deep dive comparison. I hope this can help others between two great choices. I’ll do it in stages:

Part 1. Externals

First just to say I was surprised at how the dimensional footprint really does make a difference. The M16 is big. Both in terms of portability and how it occupies a desk the M16 is large enough to seem a different class of object.

Here is a side by side photo:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/t6TxZS2zbXGgujmt6

I have the awesome Tascam carry bag for the M12 and it’s super easy to sling over shoulder and bring to band rehearsal space... the Model 16 is going to be a full on two hand carry.

That said, I prefer the top mount inputs and outputs of the M16...in the fray of portable set up out in the field it’s far easier to see what is going where with the jacks on the top.

To my great surprise there is a difference in build quality. The knobs on the M12 are smoother and feel like heavier plastic resin grade, and the M12 faders have definitely got more resistance when sliding. The M12 slider feeling is just a bit better when mixing...it’s a little too easy on the M16 to overcorrect. Caveat - I may have received a M16 from earlier production run (firmware upon arrival was 1.2 not 1.3).

The larger size of the M16 does create more space around the sliders - less crowded, nicer working area particularly in the area of the channel mutes and the metal strip below the faders for a piece of tape to annotate the channels

Overall for me, and my use cases, a net +1 for the Model 12 for being so dang portable. For cases where the unit does not move very often, a more permanent desk for instance, or using at home, probably the factor are a wash overall. more to follow.

 

[Mark Nicholson]

I think the Model 12 is an upgraded version of the device, and not just the 12-channel version of the family. No doubt there will be new improved Models 24 and 16 in due course. Gotta love progress!

 

[JSchmo_Bass]

Well Ok now. So I wanted to test the two units to compare the analog vs digital “summing” when creating a mix down.

I started with identical sets of MTR tracks on the SD card. Unfortunately the tracks, as recorded, are not all the same volume levels. All these tracks are of a live quartet. Only overdubs are vocals on “Madhouse Drive”.

Here is a link to 3 pairs of files covering 2 songs:

https://soundcloud.com/jeffrey-schmoyer/sets/mixer-comparisons-with-hometown-unknown

Madhouse Drive was recorded on the Model 12 set to capture tracks pre-compressor. There is a version with all mixer channel EQ’s, pans and faders all set totally flat - a very flawed EQ, but potentially avoiding differences in how each unit’s EQ sections and controls behave when adjusted.

The other Madhouse Drive mix uses a reasonable pan and EQ dialed in. Still no compression (since there is no way to add compression on the M16 except during tracking). Here I used an *equal knob position* approach across the two devices. I recognize that this may not actually equal, but couldn’t think of another way to have a fair comparison. In fact the EQ’s and faders seem have identical effects.

Lastly, a rough recording fresh from last night’s rehearsal, is Heavy Dreamer. I used the M16 to track this, with a very light compression on tracking (knobs at 8:00...seems to act more like a peak limiter here). I used the same “equal knob” approach across the two Models when mixing down to a stereo track. The overall mix settings are “hotter”- kind of pushing almost the edge of satutstiin which I thought might be interesting in order to check out how things behave at the limit.

I have an opinion but will hold off until everyone has a chance to check it out.

Apologies that this may not be the best set of tracks to test things... we are still just getting our act together.

 

[JSchmo_Bass]

I’ll say upfront none of these tracks or recordings sound the way I want them to yet (I am very new to recording, and I am especially struggling with drum mic’ing, And as a band we are learning how to do move beyond just jamming). But taking the material for what it is...

What I hear: the

There IS difference, although it is fairly subtle, between the mixdown sounds of the two mixers.

M16 Analog mixes have a little more “glued together” cohesiveness,smoothness, especially in the bass which is nice and fat sounding.

However I find the drums more percussive and lively in the M12 Digital mixes.

The M16 seems to smooth the highs but perhaps looses something in the process. It may be easy enough to re-EQ the highs...? Or is this a real loss of dynamics ?

I suspect the M16 has a zone of gain well below clipping where it is compressing or saturating or doing something. Playing in that zone can yield very pleasant results but can also add muddyness. It seems to need a more skilled hand at the controls... including during recording of tracks & attention to levels.

In fact as I conduct these tests I am finding an overall difference in what it feels like to be mixing on these boards: the M12 is feels a little more “fault tolerant”.. Maybe it my imagination, but it seems easier to get quite an OK mix on the 12. the 16 seems to yield a wider variance- outcomes from range meh to really great. Plus on the M12 the compressors can be used AFTER recording...


I think I am going to try one more test: shifting all the raw tracks from the SD card to a DAW, make edits, EQ, compression and gain trim adjustment in the DAW, then stream the tracks back through the 2 mixers for summing to 2 tracks to see if that gives me a different feel...

 

[-mjk-]

A digital/analog hybrid system is often desirable for the very reasons that you mentioned above. You may want to try doing all the tracking in analog, and all the mixing in digital. You could also try the reverse and see what yields the best results. Eventually you will settle on what works best for what instruments you are recording.

 

[JSchmo_Bass]

Here is a second comparison.

https://soundcloud.com/jeffrey-schmoyer/sets/mixer-comparison-2-rockin-tonight

For this test I took a set of tracks originally captured live via Model12 and imported them into a DAW (Mixbus) where I applied EQ, compression and effects to the tracks.

I then played these DAW-modified tracks back through the USB via send assignments to Model 16 tracks (into a new blank song, tracks armed to record). I used the modified tracks to mixdown to a “flat” analog stereo master (unity gain for all faders, no EQ, just some panning). I also made 2nd balanced mix where I tried to sand down some rough edges via the M16’s EQ. I probably should give this one more go. Little changes of the faders make a major impact in the final outcome.


1) Having I spent time trying to ensure apples to apples comparisons now I end up feeling its better to actually just get in there and tweak a little more to get the mix to be as good as it can be. The EQ’s on the M16 are very nice sounding and very helpful. Although now I STRONGLY wish it had a switch to select the compressors to be downstream from the MTR return so they could be used more fully!

2) In general there is a subtle “analog” character imparted by the M16 mixer that shows up consistently across tracks, warts and all

- warm punchy bass that glues into the mix
- loss of some of snap and dynamic impact at the high end
- smoother feel to the track overall

It’s not massively different but it’s good thing over all, I think, for our band’s kind of music.