Model 24 - had it / returned it - thinking of buying again

[Matt Workman]

Hello All,

I'm hoping to get some opinions and advice on the Model-24. I had it for a few days, got cold feet and sent it back.
I was disappointed when I found out it was not a DAW control, and could not wrap my head around the 'DAW integration'. I've owned... a dozen interfaces and DAW setups in the last 20 years..... I was having issues understanding this configuration... where each channel on the DAW (reaper) had to have each channel output to the input of the mixer. It was a foreign way of doing things, for me. I've been thinking about this ever since I sent the unit back... maybe I could get this to work for me.... if I only think of the DAW/REAPER.... as a play back engine - and a place to slip in some DAW effects. (I own Waves, etc.).

The other thing that freaked me out a bit - was the stability issues. Between forums, reviews and you tube - I was seeing several instances of the unit bricking or freezing, or just generally missing recording a track. Is this thing really this unstable?

Anyway - I don't see anything like this on the market - from any other company... so I am considering buying again.

Can anyone weigh in on how they use it with a DAW to mix?

And also - are these as unstable and prone to failure as I have been reading?

 

[-mjk-]

I have a Behringer X32 that I use with Reaper, without a master track and no plug-ins. The console is my interface and I monitor all tracks through it. I Mixdown to a separate stereo track in Reaper. I'm not familiar with all of the routing options of the Model 24, but the Sweetwater video shows Mitch mixing individual tracks on the mixer.

 

[Matt Workman]

I was eyeing those up. (The compact version). They are a good deal more money for sure.

Motorised faders right? It does Daw control as well? (Transport and Faders?)

 

[-mjk-]

Yes, and yes.

 

[Freebird]

Hi Matt!
I might not be able to solve all your thoughts or problems with the Model 24, but I will share some of my way of using it.

I guess my workflow is quite "simple" in comparing of how others would use it. First of all, I'm an "Old School Guy"... (65 years this august)... meaning I'm old enough to have used the Tascam Portasrudio 244 back in the middle of the 80' (which I still own... bought in 1986 and still works like a charm). Also I play mostly guitar, bassguitar, harmonica and are "cheating" on keyboards every know and then. Since what I am mostly recording are "Classic Rock, Bluesrock, Boogierock, Southern Rock, Jazz, Soul, Gospel and Country. I am not in need of most of more "modern" or "extreme"ways of using hardware and software together. But I DO use loops every now and then just to spice up my recordings.

So... this is how I often use my Model 24:

First I compose a "preliminary" drum track in Superior Drummer 3 that follows most of how my song is arranged, and then convert the midi to a wav-file. Then I also compose a "preliminary" Keyboard track in EZkeys using a combination of midi and my own "analog" playing to go along with the drums, and then I convert them also to wav-files... all inside Presonus Studio One. Then I route those tracks/wav-files the right way out to Model 24. Usually recording them on stereo tracks 17/18 & 19/20 respectively.

And now the really FUN starts!

Now I can use the Model 24 as a place to practice & record guitar, bass, harmonica, singing or anything that uses a microphone, amps etc without even have the computer connected. I lay down different instruments on different channels, testing different ideas, overdubs and whatever I want to use with the drums and keyboard as a "backing track" for building up the song. This is actually the real reason for me wanting to use an "outboard" mixer/recorder like Model 24. I want the "freedom" to skip the "harassment" of a computer when I want to be musically creative. No "computer startup time" and other "computer related" glitches and hiccups... just to plug in and PLAY when inspiration hits you. Model 24 works much like an old "tape-machine" or Porta Studio 244 ... just "plug & play"!

When I am satisfied with the result I simply transfer/record all channels on the model 24 to their respectively channel in my Daw. But I do NOT transferring the 2 channel main mix tracks on channels 22-24 since I have no use of them since I will do the real mixdown later in my DAW.

(OR maybe I will route everything back to model 24 for final mixdown/mastering there when the song in my DAW is finished... just to get some (I suppose) imagined "analogue warmth feeling" added before or during final mastering)

Back in my DAW I now have the original drum & keyboard midi-files still present in my song project, alongside everything I have recorded on the Model 24. For example: On mono channels 1-12 I have the recordings that I have done on Model 24. Stereo channel 17/18 have my drums as midi-files available for more fine tuning of the drums in Superior 3. And on stereo channel 19/20 I have my keyboard midi-files also ready for more fine tuning in EZkeys. Stereo channels 13/14 & 15/16 & 21/22 (the Bluetooth channel) are still empty and ready for further use with other digital instruments.

After this I start mixing in Studio One and make use of different vst's, compressors, reverbs, delays, limiters etc. I may use a bit of Melodyne to correct small singing mistakes here and there just to polish things up. Maybe record some backup vocals, maracas etc on the still not in use channels etc.

To sum it up:
1.Creating a "backing track"(drums/keyboards) in my DAW.
2.Transfer/recording the waw-files to Model 24
3.Rehearsing and recording the "analog" REAL instruments for the song.
4.Transer all channels exept "MainMix" 22/24 back to DAW.
5.Finetuning/arranging my midi drums and keyboards in Superior Drummer & EZkeys.
6.If neccessery record my own "real" keyboard.
7.Adding effects & Mixing/Mastering inPresonus Studio One Daw.
8.(task in progress)By Presonus Faderport 8 & 16 for better workflow in DAW.

About "Daw-controller issues": Only Model 12 have those in this Tascam series, but I find them quite limited compared to a dedicated Daw-controller. Personally I don't mind "mixing in the box" altough only a mouse and keyboard commands can be a little tedious from time to time, so I am thinking of buying a dedicated daw-controller soon. And my choice there is between Presonus Faderport V2 which only can control 1 channel at the time which is ok but a bit tedious that too, so I'm probably will go with Presonus Faderport 8 or 16. Since I work in Presonus Studio One these daw-controllers are especially good together with Presonus own products compare with Behringer etc

About stability issues. Well, the only thing that has happened to me is that if I forget to have the same sound resolution in both DAW and on Model 24, it will complain about "USB mismatch"... but that is quickly addressed by adjusting my settings. To me it is very stable and is built with quality... it's sturdy, robust... the knobs and faders are robust and professional, and it LOOKS SO FREAKING FREKKING GOOD TOO! The most beautiful furniture in my apartment!

Hope some of this may be of help in your thinking!

 

[Matt Workman]

Thanks for the detailed setup information!

"This is actually the real reason for me wanting to use an "outboard" mixer/recorder like Model 24. I want the "freedom" to skip the "harassment" of a computer when I want to be musically creative. No "computer startup time" and other "computer related" glitches and hiccups... just to plug in and PLAY when inspiration hits you. Model 24 works much like an old "tape-machine" or Porta Studio 244 ... just "plug & play"!"


^ This is why I am interested as well.

 

[Matt Workman]

Dang.... those Faderport's are nice!

 

[Maudibe]

I'm using the model 12 (lots of same principles) and use it pretty much as Freebird says. I get the drums down on 9/10 in time with the midi sync that the 12 has. Then I can just forget about the hassle of the computer (so not using it as an interface) and record old school onto the remaining tracks - get my bassist buddy over, lay a bass and rhythm as a jam to the drums, play sme lead, key pads etc. Then everything is on the memory card. Just pull it and shove it into the computer, drag all the files into a new project and edit / mix / master. Nice!

You can make the process as hard (hooking all the interface stuff up) or as easy (drag and drop) as you want, or somewhere in-between, but, for me, the beauty of the machine is the incredible old school workflow, just recording live without the computer hassles. In fact, you could just record loads of takes and ideas quickly in the Tascam, and then cut it up later for arranging in the computer. This is my preferred use. Give it a whirl.

 

[Freebird]

Quote from Maudibe:

"the beauty of the machine is the incredible old school workflow, just recording live without the computer hassles. In fact, you could just record loads of takes and ideas quickly in the Tascam, and then cut it up later for arranging in the computer."

Exactly my point to!

 

[Logrinn]

This is exactly what I do too.
And it’s sooo liberating not having to turn on the computer when creativity rears it head.

 

[Matt Workman]

That's what I've been explaining to my music buddies - when they ask why I'm even looking at Un-Dawing myself.

If inspiration strikes.... I have to get to my computer... balance a guitar on my lap while using a keyboard and mouse... turn computer on... hope computer turns on... wait for Windows to load viruses and advertisements... turn interface on... let it search for updates and firmware... antivirus wants something, hopefully it just goes away... open Daw software.... it searches for updates... turn UAD on... open a new Project.... Save new project... open new track.... and now... I'm all ready to go! Oops, somethings updating.... I guess I'm not.

 

[Freebird]

Matt.
Yeah... that's exactly my point! Actually you can do EVERYTHING (well almost anyway) in/on the Model 24 without any computer at all. You can take your already recorded tracks and take the mixer/recorder to a friends house to record some vocals/guitar etc and then come back home to mix it inside the Model 24 OR transfer it to your DAW for more fine-tuning and maybe burning to CD or whatever you want.

The only "backdraw" with the Model series is that it's a bit limited when it comes to use external hardware in and out of the mixer. It would have been nice with "insert-jacks" or dedicated analogue outputs on every channel.

But most of that can be solved by using channel 1-2 and it's "insert" jacks as is, or with "mono" jacks only partially plugged in as "outputs" to hardware. And of course you can route chosen channels out through "monitor 1" and "monitor 2", "sub 1" and "sub 2", and FX outputs with patch cables to compressors, delays etc and then back into the mixer after applying effects. It's not 100% productive but works well enough if one don't want to use a computer at all. Personally I have not used/tried these options yet, since I have not needed them, but I will try them further on up the road.

 

[Matt Workman]

I didn't play with outboard gear the short time I had this.
I have some nice Preamps.... I was thinking of just lining them in and pretending I'm bypassing the Tascam's pres.... pretending because... I'm guessing you can't really bypass this things Pre's.

 

[Freebird]

Nah... putting preamps before already existing preamps doesn't seem like a good idea. The preamps in Model 24 is already of high quality.

 

[-mjk-]

I have some nice Preamps.... I was thinking of just lining them in and pretending I'm bypassing the Tascam's pres.... pretending because... I'm guessing you can't really bypass this things Pre's.

It doesn't have a Line input?

 

[Matt Workman]

It has many line inputs.

"These standard TRS jacks are line inputs"

" 022 input analog mixer with 22 line and 16 mic inputs"

 

[-mjk-]

That is how you bypass the internal mic pres. Your external mic pre should output that microphone level at standard Line level (hence the term mic preamplifer) and it may be adjustable. Pick the Line input you want to use and go for it!

 

[Matt Workman]

Ok cool.

The last half dozen products I've checked out in years past... the LINE's never really bypassed the Pre's. Maybe it does on this one. Which... is one more thing to convince me to buy this.

 

[Matthew Fogel]

You can also use an insert cable on Channel one or two in order to bypass the Mic Pre. Plug the external preamp into the Insert instead of the Line in.

 

[Matt Workman]

Thanks will try it. If I didn't mention previously - I did rebuy the 24.