Model 24/Model 16 potential user - question

Chris Fitzgerald

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New user, glad I found this forum. I'm a music professor at the university of Louisville, and I'm looking to improve our recordings of our small jazz ensembles in two ways. I was looking at the units listed for two purposes and was told yesterday by a sales rep for a reputable company that they would not do the first of these functions without an additional external recorder, which I have a hard time believing. So I thought to ask here to see if it was true, or whether he was either 1) misinformed or 2) trying to sell me something else he wanted me to buy instead.

The two tasks I am trying to accomplish:

1) Live recording of ensemble concerts while mixing down to a stereo track in real time: basically, I would mic up each instrument, get a basic decent overall mix including EQ, then slightly ride faders to highlight soloists throughout. Ideally, at the end of the concert I am looking to have a stereo mix I could immediately access and share by popping the sound card out, normalizing if needed, and sharing with all participants via a cloud drive.

2) Recording ensembles in a more controlled setting by micing everyone up, recording flat, then later performing a mix with input from the students. While I understand i could always do this on a computer by uploading the files and mixing on Logic, for educational simplicity and workflow purposes it would be nice if I could do all of this within the Model 16 or 24 itself in the classroom without using a computer; the point is letting all of the students quickly have a hand in the mix once they are done playing.

The sales rep said that neither of the units could accomplish:
- the first task because it would not print input from the faders in real time, which I find nearly impossible to believe;
- and that it would have trouble with the second task for reasons I didn't quite catch; I think he was simply incredulous that i didn't want to mix on a computer and that I didn't want to deal with a digital desk as part of the process.

Apologies for the length of this message, but I tried to find the answers elsewhere, and everyone suggested I ask here. Thanks for an and all input!
 
I don't own the Model 24, but based on my research and comments of others in this Model 24 forum, I would have to say your #1 use is an absolute "Yes you can".

The Model 24 is always in stereo mixdown mode on tracks 23/24. The disadvantage is that the Tr23/24 stereo recording is in proprietary format. HOWEVER, I believe the Export function has an option to create a standard stereo .wav file on the SD card. There's a discussion about this in this forum. I made a search for you on the word "export". Here's the search results. Click on the Site Results tab.

Re your #2, I'll defer to someone who actually is using a Model 24, as I don't want to give you incomplete or incorrect information. But I suspect it's just as do-able as #1, and in the same way. You record on tracks 1-22, flip the input source to choose tracks 1-22, mix them to Tr23/24, and export the Tr23/24 mix to standard stereo .wav file.

Something else to consider:
If you don't need to record more than 8 tracks simultaneously, you may also want to take a look at the DP-24/32 SD Portastudios. Smaller form factor; less expensive; capable of professional studio quality masters; essentially a complete recording studio in a box with robust edit capabilities.
 
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Agree with Mark. I think the sales rep is partly right re. #1 - the channel faders (and channel EQ) are not printed for individual channels, but they are for the stereo mix.

If you check the block diagram, the red blocks marked "Send xxx" are the individual channel signals which go to the box at the bottom marked SD Recorder. Each channel signal is tapped off after the input trim, lo-cut filter and compressor so these will all be recorded, but before the EQ, fader and pan so these won't be recorded. This only applies to individual channels.

The red block "Main Out Send" is the stereo mix which also goes to the recorder box, so the stereo mix includes every channel setting mentioned above.

The outputs from the SD Recorder box marked "MTR Return" go back into the channel paths at the same point they are tapped off for recording, so you can playback the individual channels after recording, applying channel EQ, fader and pan (but not the compressor) for a subsequent mix. The 'input select' switch defines whether each channel signal comes from a pre-recorded track or a live input.

As with Mark, I don't own a Model 24 so this is all speculation from the block diagram. Where are all the actual owners... the forum needs you :)
 
Thanks, gentlemen. :) I've been asking the same question on another forum, and most people seem to think that the Model 24 will do what I want, but nobody who has one can yet confirm.

@Mark Richards - the DP24/32 both look cool but are a different kind of beast for what I'm primarily looking to do. I was at a concert last night and just counting the number of inputs I would need, and it easily exceeded 8. There is no reinforcement involved, but I would really love to be able to make basic EQ and fader tweaks to a stereo mix in real time on physical knobs, and I think it would really benefit the students to hear what they actually sound like.
 
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Hey Chris! I just purchased the Tascam Model 24 in order to record my indie jam band's improv sessions off the floor from our rehearsal space. I can confirm that you can do both tasks you desire. The 16 and 24 are both essentially a small format (16) or medium format (24) old school analogue mixing desk that has internal sends to USB and/or the internal Digital Recorder just after the low-cut and compressor and just before the channel EQ, fader and pan. As Phil pointed out, the input select depends whether the source is the mic pres (which are really quiet modern Tascam pres same as they use in their digital interfaces), or the USB interface return from the PC/Mac, or the Multitrack recorder.

So low-cut and compressor will print to the MTR or your DAW, but everything else can be mixed down later. It's essentially the same workflow as analogue to tape except with a digital recorder instead of tape. It actually feels like the exact same workflow as mixing down to tape.

I think this would be a good option for you to teach your students analogue mixing workflow as you state in option 2.

One caveat. When I bought it, I pre-ordered a 256gb SDxc, however the mixer shipped with only the 1.0 firmware installed and that doesn't recognize above 128 so I had to go spend another couple of bucks to get a second class 10 SD of 32gb in order to update the firmware of the device. Once I did that, I was able to format the 256gb SDxc card on the Model 24 and it works great.

I very nearly bought the Zoom L-20 and another of my bandmates actually has the L-12 and they are both fine, but I was attracted to the true hybrid quality of the Model 24. And although I've seen some chatter in the forum about how it would be better if it had external sends for each channel so that it could be paired with a better quality I/O (ie: TASCAM US-20X20 20-IN/20-OUT USB 3.0 INTERFACE has the same pres but is USB 3 and allows up to 192kHz/24-bit recording)
I suspect that TEAC/TASCAM didn't want to cannibalize their existing home recording market so they limited this to 48/24 max.

Still, at only $1000USD, I'm quite impressed with what this can do.

Cheers,

Matt
 
Hi Matthew, thanks so much for the detailed reply! Based on what you wrote, i feel confident that the Model 24 can accomplish the second task I am after (i.e. record multitrack, mix down later). But from what you write, based on where you note the internal sends are, I'm still not sure about the first one. So on your unit, if you had a mic on someone playing a guitar right in front of you, and you rode the fader up and down and twiddled the EQ while they were playing, would you be able to hear those changes on the resulting stereo track that was available the instant you were finished? And would you be able to hear the same things in the headphone mix while the process was taking place?

Thanks!
 
Yes, If you had a mic on someone playing a guitar right in front of you, and you rode the fader up and down and twiddled the EQ while they were playing, you would be able to hear those changes on the resulting stereo track that prints to the Master Track (23/24) available the instant you were finished and also in the headphone mix. With the latest firmware you can also export the Master track as a Stereo WAV file.
 
Matthew- I was just reading a review that said that the stereo file on the last two channels was not interleaved and had to be processed once imported into a computer. Is this the issue you were saying that the new firmware fixed?
 
Yes. Specifically, when you copy the files from Model 24, the Master channels appear as 2 mono wave files, Track 24 and Track 24. The new firmware introduces an "export feature" that will create a stereo wave file.

To expand on this a bit, all the track files are Mono, even the stereo pairs. So if you record a stereo keyboard on track 19/20, it actually creates two track wave files. mono track 19 for left and mono track 20 for right. This does open up routing possibilities though because you aren't constrained by the stereo pair. ie: if you need to record more than 16 instruments, you can share the 19/20 channel strip with two "line in" devices and use the PAN to mix them.
 

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