Mx2424 and daw

Bob Harper

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Hi-

I'm an independent ad producer of all things media and don't do any recording of
bands or additional voice talents (in house) beyond my own voice recordings.
Basically, I only use my voice, royalty free music tracks, effects etc. for what I do.

Been using the MX2424 for years, having replaced one once, in tandem with a DA7
and MX-VIEW. I've been wanting to migrate into the DAW world for a couple years now, in
order to make doing what I do, far, far easier, ALONG with the dream of getting
rid of the DA7 in order to gain some much needed desk space. Very small quarters.

HOWEVER, I see no way to do this WITHOUT keeping the DA7 because I know I'll need to access
some of those older master tracks from the MX from time to time, that were all saved to DVD-RAM DISCS.

IN MY DREAM...I could just import those MX-2424 tracks into a DAW, when needed, but have NO IDEA
on how to accomplish same, if it's even possible.

Who knows, maybe it's possible some how? I keep looking for answers to no avail.

Hoping an enlightened chap or chap-ette hear might be able to offer an idea or two.

Many thanks, Bob
 
Thank you Alan. I read your thread and getting some hopes up. :)

In regards to your comment,
"all need to start from the same start position so you can aligen them in the software you want to use",

would you suggest setting a point that's in front of all the various track parts
and recording a beep or tone on all tracks, so in turn I would then align a section
of the tone waveform in a DAW?

I haven't looked yet because I'm away from studio but can I export all the BC wave file tracks at once as a project or some such or must each track be saved individually? If the latter, I could see that this could take quite some time to achieve.

ALSO...I mentioned in the front end of my post that the majority of my work is for ads and sound design. Are there a couple of DAWs you think of that lean more toward that type of work rather than full blown band recording etc.?

I'm thinking something like Reaper seems to be pretty straight forward but there's a lot of press about Studio One 3.....the latter seems like overkill for my usage however. I'm open to any thoughts on it if you have a sec....or anyone for that matter.

Coming from years of using actual mixing consoles, I also see the need for a small controller and have been eyeballing things like the QconPro X and the Presonus Faderport 8 etc.

I'll also hold on to the mx2424 just in case...

THANKS FOR YOUR TIME AND THOUGHTS!

Much appreciated, Bob
 
Hi Bob,

Regarding:
would you suggest setting a point that's in front of all the various track parts
and recording a beep or tone on all tracks, so in turn I would then align a section
of the tone waveform in a DAW?


If you record from the same place no need to beep or tone, I set my recordings to start from the 1hr mark, that is because if you want to add something before the start on MX project you can, it is also standard for film and video to start from 1 hour. If I have a MX project where some tracks don't start at the start of the project I just fill them with silence before transfer.

Some DAW software actually loads B-Wav files in the correct place within the project, Harrison Mixbus does for example, but it's not required if you have the same start point.

I haven't looked yet because I'm away from studio but can I export all the BC wave file tracks at once as a project or some such or must each track be saved individually? If the latter, I could see that this could take quite some time to achieve.

You do them as separate tracks, but you can queue them, it does not take that long for the usual 4 min song. Actually a lot quicker than downloading a .TL project (full MX project) which you then have to open using open TL, which I have never got to work properly LOL.

ALSO...I mentioned in the front end of my post that the majority of my work is for ads and sound design. Are there a couple of DAWs you think of that lean more toward that type of work rather than full blown band recording etc.?

I am in the process of trying out various DAW software at the moment, when I get time LOL, however if you use video with sound have a look at Sony Vegas, I have an old copy version 7 and have been using versions since sonic foundry owned it, actually Magix now own it and they are a great software company, check out samplitude.

If you don't use video, Reaper seems to work well and in the short time I have been trying it out it is an option, the guys at Homerecording.com like it a lot and you can download it for free to try out. I also have a copy of Studio one which I bought on special due to being registered for products, but I am yet to load it up. Harrison Mixbus is great for mix down but I need a faster computer to run it properly, that is on the shopping list.

DAW software just depends on the end user requirements really.

Cheers
Alan.
 
Hi Alan and thank you so much for your learn-ed reply....as well as.....to turn me on to the Harrison, Mixbus 32c DAW. I never knew they HAD one! Knew the boards of course.

I downloaded the trial and am really getting into it! Coming from the old analog days, it felt and LOOKED good immediately. (Probably the VU meters sold me) I may just go in that direction and opt it with something like a Presonus Fader Port8 down the line, if the specs work.

ANYWAY...what really caught my eye in your post was that Harrison could actually loads B-Wav files in the "correct place" within the project.

With that said, I converted a project on the MX to tape mode and exported the files all at once (tried batch the first time but it looks like that also included any previous tracks I had recorded and ditched (on screen anyway) I then inserted the 2nd try of files into Harrison but am a little confused by your comment "correct place". Did you mean that the tracks would appear from say tracks 1-10 properly? I think that's what you meant and they
did seem to have done that.

The biggest thing I'm going to have to figure out is how to export tracks from the MX and keep the positioning of same, WITHOUT having a mixing desk at the ready.

For example...let's say 6 months from now I have to grab a master session from the MX of a multitrack AD I had done that had close to 24 tracks of things like SFX bits, to voices to music etc. all over the place.

And let's say, I DON'T have the DA7 mixer any longer, so I can't record a front-end tone or beep, across the front end of all tracks, that would in turn, provide me a reference benchmark for aligning everything once in Harrison. (In my example above one ad could have a slew of certain sound effects that hit in all sorts of places on the timeline.

In other words, it seems to me that I would have to put these front end tones on every single project, while I still have the mixing desk, or I'll be forced to try to re-create the tracking layout in the DAW which will be most difficult with complex projects.

ANY IDEAS ON A SOLUTION for same would be G R E A T L Y appreciated!

Again Alan, thank you so much for taking the time to get back to me and that Harrison idea.
I sincerely appreciate it!

As an aside, I wasn't aware you were an Aussie. My daughter's Godfather is a bloody KIWI now living in the states, but we won't hold that against him. '-) Took a peek at your studio and it looks quite sweet and warm to boot. Looks like a great place to record!

COOL gear too and having been down the studio road once to record jingles and self written tunes, I am VERY well aware of the tons of hours and $$$$$ you have invested in it. People who come-in often fail to realize that little fact. Heck, I shudder to think of the dollars spent on microphones alone and I still have burn scars on my fingers from soldering snakes, the dreaded RCA plug or still yet ANOTHER adaptor! :)

In other words, I DO appreciate what you've got there.
As my KIWI friend would say, Good on ya mate!

Bob
 
Hi Everyone! It's been a while since I've done any commenting on this site. But, that doesn't mean I don't watch the site regularly.

Here's how I have been using my MX 2424 to make great recordings of live concerts and even some cool studio sessions. First, a tiny amount of back-ground: I use an old Tascam DM3200 as my mixer, or a new BBE MP24M 24 channel mixer (stunning... absolutely stunning little board!!) If I use the DM3200, everything runs into the MX2424 via TDIF cables (digital input). If I use the BBE mixer, I use DB25 cables an run into the analog inputs of the 2424.

Before I start a session, I always make sure the MX2424 is set to record in "TL- Tape Mode" (menu #200) This is HUGELY important when I export the tracks/files. This ensures each recorded track has exactly the same start-point, end-point and length. After I've tracked everything, I connect the MX2424 to a network hub (a cheap Netgear) which connects to my computer (running Windows 10, by the way). I turn on the MX2424, mount the drive that has the session(s), wait about 3 or 4 minutes, then fire up MX- View in my computer. Once it connects with the 2424, I open a session file and export all of the tracks onto the music drive of my computer (this can take a LONG time depending on the amount of tracks and the length of each recorded song).

Finally, I import those files into Pro Tools and go to work. Because I record in TL- Tape Mode, all the imported tracks are exactly the same length. Therefore, I do not have to worry about phasing or alignment problems within Pro Tools.

As long as I keep the MX2424 healthy and happy, I simply do not have a reason to do any upgrading... as that costs a TON of money... and won't make anything sound any better than it already does.

Happy Recording!
Dave
 
Thanks Bob for the nice comments about the studio.

When I said that the Harrison Mixbus can place the track files in correct position due to the B-Wav built in time stamp, I was referring to correct in the time line (alignment), it won't know which channel it should be on you will need to place it in the correct channel.

What I do is create a folder for the song (project) then rename the track files during export, a bit time consuming but time saver later, with in the new name I have the track number and what it is, i.e Bass, Kick, Vocals, Guitar, etc What I sometimes do is to type up a notepad or word doc that has a description with more project detail, and I put this into the song folder.

Yes the Harrison Mixbus is cool, I just need to build a slightly faster computer, actually it will be much faster, even though mine meets the specs it only just gets there processor wise and that causes the odd glitch during playback, the hold up is that whenever I update computers it usually means something else I use stops working, sigh! and I spend all my spare time getting the new computer up to speed.

If you are interested in the Harrison, sign up for the deals and they have a lot of deals on price come through.

Alan.
 
Hi again Alan and thanks for the tip on "Harrison Deals" via signup. Will do.
I know what ya mean about the never-ending-tech-breakdown syndrome and I hope when you rebuild, nothing else goes south. '-)

All of my tracks recorded through the years were done via non-destructive mode. In my experiment, I converted one session to Tape Mode and it actually created a "separate" version while keeping the existing one, which surprised me. I exported the B waves all at once, non-batch, but when bringing them in to Harrison, they didn't position themselves on the timeline per se. I will try the process again from the start and experiment with different methods. I could have done a couple things wrong of course but if you say "H" can read the Time Stamp I won't stop trying until I get it. :) Renaming the track files is a good idea as well. Thanks a lot for taking the time and your suggestions! Much Appreciated.

Bob
 
Alan, just this moment found the solution. They have an "Insert at File Time Stamp" option I hadn't seen before. With that said, here's what I did that worked just fine...

1 In MX View, I just went to the project track folder and selected a random session and clicked Tape Mode Convert that added that version to the list. (For years always recorded in non-destruct)

2 Then, I opened the project, clicked tracks I wanted and exported audio to desktop folder

3 Then quickly burned a disc since separate older computer is not networked and running XP to handle MX View.

4 Put data disc in workstation and imported the files into Harrison VIA the "time stamp" option mentioned. Whole process didn't take more than 4 minutes for a 22 track ad.

5 Lo and behold the tracks DID INDEED line up perfectly as they had been. You WERE right saying Harrison will recognize the TimeStamp! Plus, I did this without even having the DA7 mixing desk turned on so I now see more needed desk space may just be coming soon!

I did notice that converting to tape-mode sent it to 44.1 but Harrison converted back to 48 on re-entry.

THANK YOU ever so much Alan for the tips and suggestion of Harrison!!!
I am one happy camper!

Have a great weekend!

Best regards, Bob
 
Personally I found Mixbus to be the worst DAW application so for this century. It has an incredibly wonky and substandard configuration menu and it doesn't play nice with 3rd party plugins. Importing and placing B-wav files correctly is not revolutionary and is the standard with most professional DAWS. I own the most recent version of Mixbus. I will sell my license if anyone wants to buy it. Unfortunately they have a zero return policy and had a NO DEMO policy up until recently so you were SOL if you didn't like the product or it didn't work with your hardware. Nice business model. I'd stay away from these amatuer software developers.
 
FAST FORWARD: Three days later...

Cmaffia-

At first, I was taken aback by your vitriolic commentary on Mixbus 32c but quickly realized it was nothing more than my own ego getting in the way. Reason being of course, I THOUGHT I had found an "EASY" solution to getting a plethora of sessions from the MX into a DAW!

This was my major driving force from the onset and I of course JUMPED on the first solution that could make this a possibillity! Why? Because I detest wasting time searching for gear related things. (More on that later)

REWIND HERE:

Having been buying and using 10's of thousands of dollars worth of gear since the mid-70's [INSERT: Old Analog Guy Here] and knowing full-well how one will always tend to rationalize ANY gear purchase, ahem, even if it was indeed somewhat foolhardy, I realized that you probably had a very valid point that I just didn't want to hear, as it were.

Your comment about "placing B-wav files correctly isn't revolutionary" triggered the realization that I had truly NOT done enough homework on DAWs and their usage for "my" purposes and was focused more on how to get rid of this mixing console for more deskspace
and still access old MX sessions for future use. Duh.

Okay,
ROLL TAPE:

With that said, I spent the weekend downloading, installing and experimenting with a wide variety of popular and not so popular DAWS and the first test on each, of course, was the ease of handling time stamps and B-wav files. Like you said, it's not revolutionary which I soon discovered. Most did it without any issues.

From there, I spent hours giving each DAW a shot and went far beyond just ticking a few buttons on each. I had to find one that felt good for me and wasn't overly ladened with tools for recording musicians, midi implementation etc., which I don't do any longer. It also had to be relatively easy to learn, sound good and be customizable. I went through about 10 or more of the big and not so big names until I stumbled upon one that's offered by the same biz that created software I use in the graphic, web and video worlds.

It's called Samplitude Pro X by Magix. (They recently bought out Sony's Vegas, Sound Forge etc. etc.) but more importanly, I use one of their other softwares in the Graphic World and their Object-Oriented approach is very familiar to me and shares many of the same techniques found in my Designer Pro X software....that works magnificently.

I liked many of the other DAWs as well, overall, but for my particular purposes, this one will work just fine....and yes, Cmaffia, far better than Mixbus 32c (again for what I need to do) and I thank you for the wake up call...ahem, ego aside of course. ;-)

Alan, I thank you as well for the original thoughts and help with guiding me to get those tracks out of the MX. It's my 3rd MX and can't say enough about the years of service it provided like many other higher end Tascam products I've owned throughout the years.

Hell, the first machine I did jingles and made money on was a Tascam, reel-to-reel 1/4inch
4 track, where I learned about the fine art of bounce, bounce, bouncing of tracks. Oh, then of course I needed a better mic, then a condenser mic and a Revox to mix down to, oh and then DBX noise reduction scripts and oh, now I need a mixing console and oh yeah and wouldn't it be killer to have 8 TRACKS!!!!!............oh and I almost forgot.................................

PUNCH IN
One thing in closing for anyone who reads this.

DON'T GET TOO HUNG UP with gear. Don't be come a gear ADDICT!.
I was and have been going to gear-junkie-annonymous meetings for years! :)

Find something of decent quality that works for YOU and YOUR needs.

Learn it, forget it and get back to doing what it is you love to do!
Isn't that the point to all of this?

END SESSION: Collect your fee!

- b
 
Regarding the thoughts about Mixbus, yes I agree that there are some problems with it, I am experiencing the problems also, I believe it is to do with the software being graphics heavy and you really need a quad core fast processor to run it properly, even though they say the minimum requirements are much less. I did however find it to be a really good sounding mixing software, when it worked LOL. I only suggested it as it works well with bwav files.

You are right about Magix software, great software, I am running an old version of sequoia for mastering and it is great, very expensive and mine is going to be a bit out of date when I do the computer upgrade. I have found a site with a free version (limited) samplitude pro X, if you want to get it. LINK.

And yes, Bob, my first studio was a TEAC 3340S and an old live mixer that I modded so it had 4 post eq sends on 8 channels (one send for each track of the 3340) and 4 channels not modded for mixdown use. That studio ran for a few years until the 8 and 16 track tape machines arrived, the automated console, and then the first MX and then the second MX, and then the office warehouse to put it all in LOL. Yes, I'm a gear addict, and I still own all the gear from the first studio.

Alan.
 
Alan...

LOL.....you're right. I forgot that they were called TEAC. Not sure if I had that 3340s or 3440 but yes, that was the beast. Googled a photo and it brought back a zillion memories. :)

I went on a jingle writing rampage and used to lug that thing to a local radio station just to mixdown to "stereo" and then, lug a 40+lb "Roberts" 2 track tape recorder (with sound on sound) into possible clients' businesses and pop a pair of headphones on them.

I think I sold the first 6 out of 7 jingles that way, but of course most of that new found cash found its way to Martin Audio in NYC, a 2 hour drive for mo' gear, mo' gear, mo' gear ad-infinitum. Like yourself, when 8 and then 16 tracks came along it was over. I was hooked or better said, possessed, from that point forward. Fun memories though.

Yes, from experimenting, I thought the Mixbus 32c demo was great in many ways but again, for MY purposes and for getting things done fast with a lower learning curve, I see Samplitude Pro X 3 being fine and most likely because of my other Magix software, that's also non-destructive, object-oriented in nature and "similar"...hence easier for me to learn.

There's indeed something to be said about "hardware" after looking at photos of old "gear."

I'd say similar to the difference of rooting through a box of old photographs and holding them in your hand versus looking at crystaline imagery on a phone or computer screen. Something about being able to actually touch those things adds a little magic to it all.

Now, about that Pesonus Faderport 8.....
'-)

And so it goes...

Bob
 
If your plan is to completely free yourself from the DA7 then what will your audio interface be? The Personus Faderport 8 is only for mixing, not recording.
 
Funny you asked. I was just reviewing various interfaces and still debating.
Maybe you have some suggestions in the under 1000 range? Preferably under 8. (USB)

I've seen some of interest by presonus, focusrite, Tascam, roland etc. that have received positive reviews. There was one new version by presonus that might be found on ebay a tad under the current 8-1k area. Can't think of it at moment.

I use two mics, one dynamic and one condenser. Period.
The internal mic pres are important. The ones in the DA7 are actually quite nice with no need for a stand alone mic preamp. The stuff I do at present for broadcast sounds just fine. I also need a SPDIF in/out for one piece of outboard gear I'm keeping and then some analog ins and outs for things like a CD player, an old DAT, and maybe another piece of outboard gear and/
or extra set for another pair of active monitors. So, a fair amount of analog ins and outs would be needed.

Very hard to find people agreeing on choices in this world.

Yes, aware of the Faderport for mixing. Mentioned it merely as an aside to being able to touch.

- b
 
Bob, I forgot to ask what cards you have installed in the MX, do you have an analog card installed?

I ask because I have the analog card and the Adat card installed in both my MX's, and using an M-Audio lightbridge we can use the MX(s) as an interface. even with one MX you can get, 24 channels in, 16 in and 8 out, 8 in and 16 out or 24 out.

Cheers
Alan.
 
Hi Alan-

Nope, have the 3 TDIF's bought specifically for the DA7 but hey, thanks for that thought.

Been eyeballing the new MOTU Ultralite Mk4 at present. Since I only need two mic inputs
but more than a few analog ins and outs, it looks like it'll get the job done but still researching MOTU's rep etc. A zillion years ago I recall having something by them but that's when they were only known as Mark of the Unicorn.

Bob
 
moth is a great company and one of the oldest.
what u need is a interface with midi so that you can sync the two machines.
then u can transfer either analog or digital.
simple. the daw does not matter but digital performer is great!
 

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