Vocal pedals

[Emma Boyd]

I'm considering adding a vocal pedal to my recording setup on the DP008ex and I'm trying to decide between a TC Helicon Voicetone Correct and a TC Helicon Voicetone T1. Anyone have any experience/thoughts/opinions/suggestions they could share?

 

[Arjan P]

What is the reason you want to add 'a' vocal pedal? That's the most important thing to consider IMO.

 

[Emma Boyd]

That's a fair question, Arjan. If the tone/dynamics pedals really do what they say on the tin, it will cut out the part of the recording process that gives me many a headache (i.e. having to think about manual EQing, compression, de-essing etc) and let me get on with the stuff I do enjoy. I think I'm also curious as to what these badboys can do! I went for the TC Helicon T1 pedal so shall report back!

 

[-mjk-]

I have a VoiceLive Touch 2 and I use it as an outboard processor.

 

[2807]

I recently bought the TC Helicon "Mic-Mechanic" and the "Voice Doubler" pedal. I was hoping to daisy chain them, or use one only, and get some simple reverb and effects.

My first try with them a week ago was also my first real try with a bunch of new gear...and the short story is ... There was an incredible amount of hiss. Unusable. So, I took the pedals out of the microphone chain, and moved on with no hiss. I intend to revisit them soon. I can report back. I am a bit more familiar with my set up now, so I can refine my inquiry into this gnarly hiss.

Here is (was) my signal flow, and I sure appreciate anyone's advice:

Se4400a condenser mic, into TC pedal 1, then daisy-chained into TC pedal 2, then into Warm Audio preamp using its internal phantom power, then into Warm Audio compressor, then into line input of DP32 with input trim full CCW.

Somewhere in this, I created a bad hiss. Removing the pedals, removed the hiss. I am going to go back and try only one pedal, and bypass other things, and do some R&D. Not sure if it is a gain setting somewhere, or if the daisy chain is too much, or if the signal flow needs a different path, or what? But, the hiss is not good. I need to plug the mic direct into a pedal, then direct into the DP32 and test things a bit.

Thanks.

 

[Arjan P]

Here is (was) my signal flow, and I sure appreciate anyone's advice:

Se4400a condenser mic, into TC pedal 1, then daisy-chained into TC pedal 2, then into Warm Audio preamp using its internal phantom power, then into Warm Audio compressor, then into line input of DP32 with input trim full CCW.

I'm surprised these pedals apparently allow phantom power on their outputs, and assume they will even transfer it to the mic on the input? Maybe that's something to look into: If the TC connected to the mic already supplies it, then from the Warm Adio pre it's unnecessary and may even cause the hiss..

 

[2807]

The TC Helicon vocal pedals were plugged in with a 9v power adapter, if that means anything?

I will try a few different options soon and see if I can figure out the hiss. I am quite new to this hardware, including the Tascam DP32, but I am tracking things w/o a hiss. It’s certainly something in my signal flow for the microphone. Or, we will discover that these pedals just have a hiss! That’s a drag, and I doubt it’s true. Probably the phantom power or my gain settings, or possibly they are not made to daisy chain. I don’t intend to use then at the same time, I just wanted to A/B them and screw around. I heard hiss. I yanked them, and moved on.

I’m so happy just to be able to get a signal through everything and recorded on the DP32, I didn’t care to solve the hiss on the fly. Now, I’ll go back and take a look….

This forum is so helpful. Mr. Tipping’s book and videos saved me. I am having a blast. Did all of this 25 years ago on a Roland VS 1680, but this is my first time back in many many years. The DP32 is like an old friend, but a few new features. Thanks folks. There was certainly no internet to help back then. I was on my own!

 

[BazzBass]

it could possibly be power source hiss, try plugging the pedal's power pack in different outlets or use a battery power pack like the Volto. So many variables it may be tricky to fix.

 

[-mjk-]

It's one preamp device into another preamp, into another preamp that's putting 48v on the output of the previous stage. It's a miracle it hasn't smoked.

 

[Emma Boyd]

The TC Helicon vocal pedals were plugged in with a 9v power adapter, if that means anything?

I will try a few different options soon and see if I can figure out the hiss. I am quite new to this hardware, including the Tascam DP32, but I am tracking things w/o a hiss. It’s certainly something in my signal flow for the microphone. Or, we will discover that these pedals just have a hiss! That’s a drag, and I doubt it’s true. Probably the phantom power or my gain settings, or possibly they are not made to daisy chain. I don’t intend to use then at the same time, I just wanted to A/B them and screw around. I heard hiss. I yanked them, and moved on.

I’m so happy just to be able to get a signal through everything and recorded on the DP32, I didn’t care to solve the hiss on the fly. Now, I’ll go back and take a look….

This forum is so helpful. Mr. Tipping’s book and videos saved me. I am having a blast. Did all of this 25 years ago on a Roland VS 1680, but this is my first time back in many many years. The DP32 is like an old friend, but a few new features. Thanks folks. There was certainly no internet to help back then. I was on my own!

I suspect the phantom power too - apparently on the TC Helicon pedals, the phantom is automatically switched on when they're powered up, with no option to switch it off. My other thought is to check the position of the gain control which I think is on the left side of these pedals. Hiss is so annoying - I can understand why you moved on at the time!

I agree that this forum is so helpful. 20 years ago we were at the mercy of instruction manuals. It's so great to be able to explore these things with other musos.

 

[2807]

It's one preamp device into another preamp, into another preamp that's putting 48v on the output of the previous stage. It's a miracle it hasn't smoked.

Hahahahah. This is great. And, probably true! I didn’t know any better. I didn’t realize the vocal pedal was serving as any sort of phantom power, or power of whatever sort. I just assumed the since the condenser mic needed phantom power, well, I would acquiesce…

So, I will revisit it soon and see what I can see. I’m on a hiss safari.

Had a loss of time today as I was scrambling and dealing with my first ever ‘file error” and a hiccup in my DP32. So, the ol’ vocal tracking has to wait. When you’re new, all of this is extra slow.

But, everything is hard before it is easy. This is no different.
One day at a time.

 

[-mjk-]

I'm not familiar with with those devices in particular but if they are like my VoiceLive Touch 2, it itself has phantom power. You should never apply phantom power to the output of any device that isn't a microphone.

 

[2807]

I tried these pedals again. Solo. Still ac power, but even tried a different wall plug. Something is not right. They hiss. My mic...direct... no hiss. Either pedal... bad hiss. Unusable. Not worth the trouble. I will return these and find better. Seems odd though. But, before I do, I will try a SM57 and not this condenser mic with the phantom power issue. Let's see if a more simple mic will be better. I'll be back....

 

[-mjk-]

@2807 said:

I tried these pedals again.

Did you try them ganged like above, or one at a time? Do these devices have gain controls on them?

 

[2807]

Hi MJ. I did not gang them together this time. I also did not use any of my outboard gear. I merely plugged the Se440a condenser mic into the pedal, and from the pedal—into the DP32 xlr. I tried with no Phan time power and the signal was way too weak, and still had hiss. Then with phantom power from the DP, I got a loud enough signal, but HISS like crazy.

Seemed like I really had to crank the trim on the DP to get a reasonable signal.

The pedals do not have any gain. They both have this bad hiss. It seems impossible they are made this way, it must be something I’m doing or they just don’t interact well with a DP, or something.

Reading a bit on the web… it says the pedal does have 24v phantom power “always on”. But, without turning on the DP phantom the level was so low. I will go the-try. And, I’ll try batteries.
I will dig a little deeper and see if I am missing something here. Maybe my first try with the daisy chain and adding my own phantom power fried something. Great.

 

[Emma Boyd]

Hahahahah. This is great. And, probably true! I didn’t know any better. I didn’t realize the vocal pedal was serving as any sort of phantom power, or power of whatever sort. I just assumed the since the condenser mic needed phantom power, well, I would acquiesce…

So, I will revisit it soon and see what I can see. I’m on a hiss safari.

Had a loss of time today as I was scrambling and dealing with my first ever ‘file error” and a hiccup in my DP32. So, the ol’ vocal tracking has to wait. When you’re new, all of this is extra slow.

But, everything is hard before it is easy. This is no different.
One day at a time.

I completely agree. I'm at a similar stage of the journey and it's a steep but rewarding learning curve!

I was on a 'buzz safari' a few months ago with a guitar pedal and it transpired to be my power source. Bought an adaptor called a Dr Tone and it sorted that right out (although always best to stick with the adaptors that come with equipment where possible).

What is rather confusing to me is that these vocal pedals emit 24v phantom power but my understanding is that condenser mics require 48v.

 

[Arjan P]

It is confusing, since the standard for phantom power has 3 'variants': 12, 24 and 48 Volts.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantom_power#Standards

Also interesting there: the history of 48V phantom power: Apparently Norwegian Radio had some new Neumann mics on order and required they use phantom power. Since they already had 48V DC for an emergency lighting system, they went with that. Love those stories