Which Model is right for me (and other questions)?

[712Jefferson]

Hi, all. Joined the community today and hope to become a regular member. I'm basically a bedroom hobbyist and just relocated to a new state with my wife. The move required me to sell off most of my old gear (long story) and start from scratch.

Now that we're settled in, I've started the process of searching for new gear to create a very modest music setup in my home office for solo jamming, etc. I was planning to purchase (1) a new USB audio interface (formerly had an Audient id14) to essentially act as a PC sound card and operate my studio monitors, (2) a new mixer (formerly had a Mackie 1202VLZ4) to plug my synths and effects pedals (on Aux sends/returns) into, and (3) a looping pedal (haven't owned one in a while but formerly had a Boomerang).

However, I was completely unaware of the existence of the Tascam Model series until just this week. I strongly prefer the DAWless approach to making music, especially since I don't have much interest for now in recording and mastering and would rather spend my time jamming and experimenting. Love one knob per function, etc. Anyway, it occurred to me that I just might be able to get away with buying one of the Models and using it to replace all three of the functions listed above: PC interface, performance mixer and looper. Of course, this might also be wishful thinking, which is why I turn to all of you.

First of all, does the above idea sound at all reasonable to you? I've read through each of the 13 pages on this forum and know that the units aren't without their frustrations and shortcomings.

My main concerns are three fold:

1) Will it be a reliable audio interface unto itself? I could potentially add something like a Mackie big knob to make monitor control easier, if needed. Aside from work, I use my PC for music listening, gaming and watching videos. My former Audient and pretty much any modern interface works well for this and also provided solid headphone output. I'm somewhat concerned about using a mixer for this task on a semi-daily basis.

2) After reading everything, I'm still trying to figure out the best way to use my outboard effects (many are stereo) with the boards. Ideally, I would use them via Aux rather than inserts, so I can use them with whatever channels I see fit, but this is all still hazy to me with the Models.

3) Looping. Again, kinda hazy on the best way to accomplish this in a practical manner while performing. Is there an ability to overdub on existing channels as you would on a looper pedal, or would I need to record something and send that to a new channel for simultaneous playback? Is there a mechanism to loop playback at all? Just trying to wrap my head around it all. Figure I could also use a foot pedal for punching in and out or something like that.

Am I asking for too much with all of the above or is it doable? If so, what pain points should I expect?

Lastly, if this is all reasonable enough, which Model would you recommend I choose. Would love to spend less, of course, so the 12 is appealing and I know it has some newer bells and whistles (the MIDI functionality is especially intriguing), but I'm just concerned that the amount of channels will be too limiting in the long run. I don't need to record a full band or anything like that, but if I want to have multiple synths plugged in, plus perhaps a drum machine and a mic, it starts to get a little crowded, and if I need to keep empty channels open to be used as looping tracks, it becomes a real issue. Open to purchasing the 12, 16 or 24 - whichever is the best fit.

Advice and from those more experienced with these units would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Mark Nicholson]

If you're not going to use a DAW, get whichever one has the right number of channels for you. If you do anticipate using a DAW in the future, the Model 12 has much better DAW integration. It's also the later model of the three and is entirely digital between inputs and outputs. I'd recommend the 12 unless you really need more channels.

Don't worry too much about the problem reports, that's what forums are for and I don't think anything as capable as these mixers is simple to use at first. I'm certainly very happy with my Model 12

 

[712Jefferson]

Thank you very much for the reply.

In reference to the looping idea mentioned above, does it make sense to account for extra empty channels to move recorded tracks onto, etc., when choosing between the 12/16/24 or am I thinking about it in the wrong way entirely?

 

[JSchmo_Bass]

The Model 12 has a “vamp” feature that will loop. But be aware that as of now, you cannot record while playing a camp loop. That’s a bit vexing - perhaps they will address this in the future.

In my view, if your focus is on song creation and you want literally no, I mean ZERO interaction with a DAW or computer, then consider the DP24.

But if you are willing to invest just a little bit into learning a DAW, then the Model 12 really comes into its own, letting you work numerous hybrid ways. I think it’s the best and most flexible of the Model series l.

 

[712Jefferson]

Thanks! Really prefer to work without the DAW. Any way to accomplish something similar to the VAMP function (for looping) in the 16/24?

 

[JSchmo_Bass]

Well, staying totally in the Model X family, without a computer... no, I can’t think of a way to loop a part and record.

With a two of them - yes, or perhaps a Model 12 in Vamp mode connected to a DR40 to record...

Have a look at the DP24 - it’s on sale right now (in the US) for $399. An amazing piece of kit - completely self contained. You could literally make an an album on one, without touching a computer, as some on this forum do.

 

[Logrinn]

Thank you very much for the reply.

In reference to the looping idea mentioned above, does it make sense to account for extra empty channels to move recorded tracks onto, etc., when choosing between the 12/16/24 or am I thinking about it in the wrong way entirely?

None of the three models allows you to loop. You’d have to use a dedicated looper for that.
But regarding your question above, be aware that you can only move tracks on the Model 12. This isn’t possible on the 16 and 24.

 

[JSchmo_Bass]

That’s very true, and a key reason why I like the Model 12 as a band rehearsal recorder. I do NOT want to bring a laptop to a band rehearsal or gig setting. You can do some quick swaps on the fly.

Back home I don’t mind working with the laptop side by side and connected to the Model 12 or 16. Once connected to a computer one can get around the limitation of not having track swap feature on Model 16/24 pretty easily by using ‘Storage Mode’ and File Manger to edit the MTR folder’s track file names. As long as you work carefully, it works great and it’s fast. No DAW required.

The trick is to ONLY adjust the *number* in the track file name, and keep only 1 of each track number, leaving all else in the file name exactly as is. Model recognizes and loads the tracks according to the number in the file name. Via this approach one can exchange track files, make backups or store alternative/virtual takes, move or swap tracks as needed and *without firing up the DAW*

Just be sure to work carefully.

I find it helpful to keep a back up for every song folder so on hard drive with additional sub folders for original tracks, new tracks and notes so you don’t get lost. I make sure the SD card has on the the current clean “best of” tracks that respect the Model’s file naming system.

It’s possible via this approach to have many takes of track similar to “virtual tracks” feature. You just need to come up with your own file management system for your songs that works for you. As you would/will anyway if working with a DAW someday so this workflow is perfect for hybrid working “in the mixer” and “in the box” as you wish.

 

[712Jefferson]

Thanks for your inputs, fellas. It's greatly appreciated.

For whatever reason, I just find myself with little to no interest in recording anything with the intent to create actual songs to master, etc. I'm only interested in jamming at home and fooling around, mixing various instruments and effects together.

I've given up on the dream of using one of the Models as an all-in-one solution and just ordered a Motu M2 USB interface this morning to essentially act as a sound card for my PC and monitors. I do still see a lot of value in them as a live performance tool, however. Sweetwater currently has the 16 in stock, but won't have any 12 and 24s in until March. Seems like the 16 is kind of stuck in no man's land between the two, so I'll have to decide between one of the others by the time they're back in stock.

I appreciate the extra routing flexibility/inputs and the longer fader throws of the 24. If there's a way I can manipulate it's recording functionality to serve as repeatable backing tracks for jamming at home that would be useful enough as a "looper", I think I might just eat the difference and pick one up. If not, it looks like the 12 is in my future.

Any thoughts on the new Mackie Onyx series as a direct competitor?

 

[Morgelec]

The Mackie only has 4/4 USB. Which of course will work for some people.

 

[Blue Monster 65]

The new Mackie Onyx series has a x4 return, but sends on all channels on the board (8x4, 14x4, 18x4). Not too bad for budget boards.

Jefferson - is there a reason you don't get a looper like the Boss RC-300?

 

[Andy R.]

I have the 16. You can move tracks externally with patch cords and pan them into one of the 2 stereo channels. For example I do it with multiple drum tracks.

Here's a vid I found on this forum that shows how to move or bounce tracks. Although a bit complicated, I've done this and found that you can eliminate several of it steps.

 

[712Jefferson]

Jefferson - is there a reason you don't get a looper like the Boss RC-300?

Mostly for budgetary reasons - it would be one more thing to buy and more clutter/cables. May be necessary though. All in all, I long for a comprehensive performance mixer with enough I/O, which I was/am hoping this could function as. The looper may end up being a necessary extra purchase though.

 

[Blue Monster 65]

Got it. Just seems like that’s as much what you’re looking for as a mixer. You can do a lot of interesting stuff with the RC-300. My son has one and has used it for both guitar and sax.

 

[712Jefferson]

Yeah, you're not wrong. The RC-300 seems like a great unit. A used RC-300 and a Model 12 would probably be about the same price as a new Model 24, just concerned about having enough I/O for everything in the long run as my gear expands and having one more piece of equipment to run through. Think I'm just asking for too much, unfortunately.

 

[Blue Monster 65]

Yep - sometimes you have to bite the bullet and go with a different setup than you want.

I assume you could achieve the results you want with Ableton Live or Bitwig, but where’s the hands on fun in that?

 

[Mark Richards]

... If there's a way I can manipulate it's recording functionality to serve as repeatable backing tracks for jamming at home that would be useful enough as a "looper"...

Here's how a gapless loop can be created on DP-24/32/SD portastudio. Could something similar be doable on the Model XX ?

 

[712Jefferson]

Quick follow-up:

As mentioned, I went ahead and purchased a Motu M2 to act as an audio interface. However, I just got a notification that the Model 12 is back in stock at Sweetwater. If I go ahead and purchase the Model 12, can it be used in conjunction with the M2 or is it best as a standalone interface?

I have run a previous Audient interface through channel inputs on a Mackie VLZ mixer before, but it seemed to degrade the audio quality a bit. Is there a better way to do this with the Tascam or would they essentially be redundant?

Again, your insight is appreciated!

 

[Blue Monster 65]

There's no need for both; you're just doubling them up. Running the signal out of either into the other serves no logical purpose. I would suggest choosing one or the other. If you want to keep both, use them separately.

 

[-mjk-]

Yes, the Model 12 is an interface. Unless you have some specific need for an additional interface, it's redundant.