2488 - importing WAV files: Mono seen as Stereo?

[barry.b]

Hi all

I'm trying the import feature for the first time, and it's left me scratching my head on what's happening.

I did a live show that a friend used his Focusrite/Protools setup to record 16 tracks of instruments.

Following the 2488 instructions, I got him to give them to me as 16 individual WAV files at 44.1kHz, 24bit.

I coppied them over to my laptop, opened the connection to the 2488, and imported them into the FAT partition of the 2488. Seemed to work OK at that point.

The trouble is that the importing from the 2488 into the working partition... they're not seen as MONO WAV files, but STEREO WAV.

Sigh.

Are they really stereo WAV files or is an incompatability in the WAV format between ProTools and the 2488?

To solve this, can I use these 16 STEREO WAV files as 16 mono 2488 tracks? They're just individual instruments/microphones/D.I, they were never intended to be stereo.

Thoughts?

Thanks
Barry

 

[kenk]

Hi Barry,
The 2488 is set up with tracks 1-12 as mono tracks and all pairs thereafter for stereo (ex: 13/14, 15/16, etc). I believe this was set up by Tascam for convenience, but isn't necessarily so!
Personally, I use the stereo tracks for things like keyboards, drum overheads, etc...
Ken

 

[barry.b]

Thanks Ken

Following a few tips from elsewhere, I opened the individual instrument WAV files from the ProTools/Focusrite recording into the free Audacity audio editing too, and they were indeed all stereo. It was because of the way my friend set up the ProTools session.

So, like you're suggesting, the drum overheads and keys are true stereo so I'll keep and import them that way. The others really are only mono so I'm using Audacity to convert them to mono before taking them into the 2488.

Thanks for the reminder of tracks 1-12 and 13-24. I've just read that footnote in the manual at the botom of the "USB Import (stereo WAV files" section so now I know what you mean.

 

[kenk]

Hi Barry,

...makes sense.

After a little extra file conversion work, you'll be all set. Like anything, the 2488 may have some small shortcomings, but I'm a huge fan. Best of luck with your project!

Ken

 

[barry.b]

sadly, not yet.

All I've got is 15 tracks of digital noise from the 2488. I suspect Audacity has not given me the correct format.

The bit rate is 1411kbps for the mono tracks and double that for the stereo tracks...

... but I've got a funny feeling I've saved them from Audacity after mono (and a bit of compresison for the stereo tracks) in the wrong format.

1) what format should I use?
- (Encoding): Signed 24bit PCM?
- (Header): "RAW(headerless)"? "WAV (Microsoft)"?

2) how should I delete the broken WAV files that have already been asigned to the virtual/physical tracks?

 

[barry.b]

just a quick update.

I took a punt and tried Signed 24bit PCM, WAV (Microsoft), 44.1kHz on one of the stereo pairs of the recording (stereo keys).

I was able to transfer it over to the WAV partition then, loaded it into the working partition by assigning it to a pair of tracks (15/16).

However, after the harddrive chugged away for ages (40min of recording), there was no sign of it on tracks 15/16). Nothing. I've got no idea where it went - it's the same process I used for the broken stereo pairs (that produced the digital noise but at least they transferred).

 

[barry.b]

Nope, it's beaten me.

I tried the other alternaive of RAW(headerless) Signed 24bit PCM (while ensuring the file extenion was "WAV" on the save) and the 2488 c0uldn't even see the file to transfer from the USB partition to the working partition.

I went back to basics, picked a stereo WAV file origionally from the ProTools recording (ie: nothing to do with Audacity), and while the 2488 could see the WAV file for importing into the working partition, when I tried it said the file was too large ... and yet it's smaller than the Audacity-modified file that I *could* import but only gave me digital noise.

I've tried everyithing I can think of
- different converted Audacity WAV file types (digital noise OR can't be seen by the 2488)
- the original ProTools WAV files ("too large" when trying to import).

... so I'm at a loss on what to do next.

Sigh.

 

[Phil Tipping]

FWIW just tried this test with Audacity and my dp32sd.
Audacity 2.1.2 under Windows XP.
Original test file (right-click, Properties): 16-bit, mono, 44KHz PCM
Open with Audacity, details in left-hand pane: Mono, 44100Hz, 32-bit float.
Click File, Export Audio. I tried 2 export options...
1. Type: WAV(Microsoft) Signed 16-bit PCM
Imports & plays ok on dp32sd in a 16bit 44.1KHz song.
2. Type: Other uncompressed files, Header: WAV(Microsoft), Encoding: Signed 24-bit PCM (NB. had to add .wav to filename manually otherwise it uses .aiff as extension).
Imports & plays ok on dp32sd in a 24bit 44.1KHz song.

I'll try a stereo file if you want, if that's where the problem is, but I think as long as Audacity shows 44100, those 2 export options should work. Obviously the settings you pick need to match the Tascam song settings (with the dp32 at least).

 

[barry.b]

Phil, thank you very much for making the effort to try this out. Your #2 is something 've tried so maybe there's some weirdness with filesize of the indiviual WAV files, or of the
numbr of files (and thir size) lredy assgned to virtual tracks/stereo pairs. It's 40+ min of audio so mono WAV files (post Audacity) are nearly 700Mb with the stereo files (post Audacity with a bit of comprrssion) over 900Mb. I"ve had to do the transfer in multiple "btes" because of hitting the 8Gb limit of the USB/transfer partition.

What bugs me about the size theory is that the origional stereo ProTools WAV files (without Audacity mods, 24bit/1411kbps according to Winows 10 file manager) threw "file too lwrge" errors when trying to assign it to a pair of tracks

from what I've read elsewhere, it should work. thanks for confirming it works for you on the DP-24

I'm going to blow away the song in the morning and try those settings again

 

[Phil Tipping]

No problem Barry - Audacity seems to crop up a lot but I've never used it, so it was a good excuse to see what it offered export-wise. Is there any chance your Protools friend could split the files into smaller chunks to avoid some of the other complications? There have been a few problems reported here where people have just left the recorder running, then find it tricky to split things up afterwards for mixing/mastering - much better to start a fresh song each time, although it's easier to say than do!

 

[barry.b]

I finally got it to work.

Thanks again, Phil, your suggestion turned out to be solution.

The core problem was the size of the files so I've had to take your advice and split the live recording up into the songs, which is a shame because it means stringing them back together at the end. I was hoping to use the "LiveWriter mode"[1] to keep it as one contiguous recording, but I'm running out of time, so individual songs it is.

I'm using Audacity to do the split of the (bulk) recording into songs on the individual instrument tracks by noting the [START] and [END] points of each song, hoping the edit down to the milisecond is accurate so they all align again when they get transferred into each song.

So that means ... 13 instruments (two stereo, 11 mono)... times ... eight songs worth of splits... and that's just the first of two sets.

At least while I'm in Audacity, I can do things like throw a limiter of each track where's there's clipping on the initial recording, replace spill with silence, and a touch of compression where needed. The waveform view of Audacity on a computer is just a bit easier to see than the 2488.

So, mystery managed, back to laborously tearing this recording apart and re-assembling it within the 2488.

Cheers
B

[1]
"Live Writer mode enables markers to be used to define tracks within a continuous recording, such as a live concert"