Clipping/peaking

[Emma Boyd]

Hi folks. I wonder if someone can offer some advice here please...I've noticed that I'm experiencing annoying clipping on my louder/higher vocal notes. Applying compression doesn't seem to make a difference and I've experimented with using the external input gain level at 'mid' instead of 'high' but this tends to make the vocal track too quiet. I've tried different mic placements and techniques etc but to no avail. I've also played about with the trim level and it's still overloading even when this is set to 1 or 2. I have the same issue when I use the internal mic but my preference is to use an SM58. Any suggestions would be extremely welcome!

 

[Arjan P]

I've experimented with using the external input gain level at 'mid' instead of 'high' but this tends to make the vocal track too quiet.

Still, you are on the right track here. Better to have a quieter, non-clipping vocal than clipping, because you should be able to increase the level later on. Looking at the DP008ex I can't see what you mean with external input gain Mid or High - I only see trim knobs for Input A and B.

 

[BazzBass]

I had a lot of trouble getting good gain out of an SM58 for vocals for one of my bands, as soon as I changed it for my SE X1 LDC it was sweet as.
If you have a tube pre amp I'd try that otherwise that mic doesn't have it in it, as far as high gain. imho.

 

[Emma Boyd]

Still, you are on the right track here. Better to have a quieter, non-clipping vocal than clipping, because you should be able to increase the level later on. Looking at the DP008ex I can't see what you mean with external input gain Mid or High - I only see trim knobs for Input A and B.

Good to know I'm thinking along the right lines. When you press the input button on the DP008ex, there's the option of low, mid and high gain. High seems too sensitive and mid seems not sensitive enough. Nice point that quieter, non-clipping is preferable though.

 

[Emma Boyd]

BazzBass, that's pretty refreshing to hear. Generally when I've researched mics, there seems to be an assumption that dynamics can handle anything and condensers are more delicate. I've actually found my condenser mic gives less clipping. Think I've just had my heart set on using my SM 58 for recording.

 

[Arjan P]

When you press the input button on the DP008ex, there's the option of low, mid and high gain. High seems too sensitive and mid seems not sensitive enough.

Ah , I see - well, actually a thing you can't see on a photo
If you like the sound of the SM58, you could try the Beta58 for a little more output. The Beta sound is not exactly the same though, it has a noticeable boost in the high mids.

 

[Emma Boyd]

Yes, there are a lot of features tucked away on the DP008ex. I only just discovered that you can apply a compressor or de-essor as you have to go through a couple of screens to get to them.

Thanks very much for the Beta58 recommendation - that's definitely something for me to consider. I've been trying the SM58 with a Triton Fethead preamp so getting decent volume now but the tradeoff is that it may be contributing to the clipping issue.

 

[Emma Boyd]

I've been experimenting more with mics and gain and have realised that actually what I thought was clipping might not be...as far as the levels on the screen show, the vocals are sitting comfortably below max. More gentle, 'verse singing' is fine but when I belt out my more powerful notes, I still notice a crackle. This persists whether I use the SM 58 or the C1 condenser mic.

I've played around with the external input gain, trim knobs and mic positioning but no difference there. As Arjan said, it's better to have a quieter recording with no clipping than a louder one with, but this seems to be happening regardless of volume. I use an XLR to XLR cable and have tried two different ones, same result.

Any advice or suggestions would be extremely welcome.

 

[Felonious Punk]

Do you have a blown speaker? Maybe a faulty cable? Just riffing here...

FP

 

[Phil Tipping]

My 2 cents... you may need an attenuator (or pad if your mic has a built-in one).
Some pre-amps can overload even if you turn the gain/trims down; it depends on the design.

 

[Emma Boyd]

Do you have a blown speaker? Maybe a faulty cable? Just riffing here...

FP

Good suggestions. I plug my mic directly into the portastudio with an XLR to XLR cable but have tried a couple of different ones and the issue remains. I monitor through headphones and again I've tried a couple of different sets to no avail.

 

[Emma Boyd]

Thanks Phil. What exactly is an attenuator and how do I know if my mic has one?

 

[Phil Tipping]

It's just a resistor to reduce the signal level. They usually come with a fixed reduction ratio specified in dBs, e.g. 10dB, 20dB etc. The bigger the number, the bigger the reduction. Here's one of many examples.
If your mic has one, it will be a switch labelled something like Pad or ndB.
Update: the crackle could be the mic itself overloading (although you must have an amazing set of pipes if it's this!), in which case you'll have to 'back off' a bit

 

[Emma Boyd]

That's brilliant, Phil. I'll pick up one of those - definitely worth a try at that price. I've had a look and neither of my mics have an in-built Pad.

I have a fair set of pipes but I'm hardly Aretha Franklin. Haha!

Would 20db be best? As you say, there are many different ones!

 

[Phil Tipping]

I would have said 10dB as that's a common one used on mics... but inline attenuators won't help if the problem is due to the internal electronics on a condensor mic being overloaded (a built-in pad would prevent this).
But... I've just noticed you said you had the same problem with both a dynamic and a condensor so I'm now having doubts as the former usually generates a lower signal than the latter. Maybe someone else can chip in and advise before you spend more money on this.
How close are you to the mic? ... from a physical point of view, not emotional

 

[Emma Boyd]

Thanks Phil. Emotionally, I'd say we've been drifting apart but physically, I have my pop shield about 10 inches from the mic. I've found that any further away than that, with the gain set so it's not peaking out, the recorded vocal is so quiet that even at maximum volume (and the other tracks turned way down) it's not loud enough.

 

[BazzBass]

you could move further back from the mic when belting out the choruses, as a cheap solution?

experiment by moving a foot further back and monitoring the levels. Mark a line where you think is far enough away.

 

[-mjk-]

Doe the condenser mic have a pad switch?

It sounds like you're experiencing peak distortion and the meters may not be fast enough to indicate that.

If you send me one of your exported tracks I can analyze it with RX8 and see what's up with it.

 

[Emma Boyd]

MJK, the C1 condenser mic doesn't have a pad switch, however, I've found an old AKG condenser in my cupboard which has a -10 option. I'll give that a go and see if it resolves the issue. If not, I'd very much like to take you up on the offer of analysis with RX8 - many thanks for that.

 

[-mjk-]

Sure Emma. It's very easy and should tell the story. All you'd have to do is put it on a cloud somewhere and give me the link to download.