Connecting from phono jacks on a PA mixer to the DR-40

shaunTCB

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TASCAM DR-40
Hi All,
I'm new on here and new to the Tascam, in fact only got it 2 hours ago.
I wondered if anyone could tell me how to connect to the device using the small red and white phono jacks from our bands mixer.
And also how to disable the built in mics so that I only record from our mixer.
Sorry but I have not got time to figure it all out as we are doing a gig tomorrow and I am in a rush to sort it.
So if anyone can help that would be great.
Sorry if I have not posted in the correct forum.

Thanks,

ShaunTCB
 
The DR-40 has balanced inputs; this means that the signal is carried on a pair of conductors and the shield is a separate conductor. The red and white phono jacks (commonly called "RCA" jacks) on your mixer are UNbalanced outputs; this means that the signal is carried on the inner conductor and the shield.

Consumer electronic gear almost always uses unbalanced inputs and outputs for the sake of low cost. Professional audio gear uses balanced inputs and outputs in order to guarantee freedom from electrical hum. The cable and connectors for professional gear costs a bit more, but they are inexpensive in comparison with the cost and frustration of tracking down and eliminating hum.

The input jacks of the DR-40 can accommodate either a 3-pin XLR connector for a microphone-level signal or a 1/4-inch TRS phone plug for a line-level signal. (TRS means tip-ring-sleeve; the tip and ring carry the signal, and the sleeve is the shield.) The EXTernal input switch on the left-hand side of the DR-40 chooses [LINE] or [MIC] or [MIC with phantom power]; the last is for condenser microphones.

The proper way to connect your mixer to the DR-40 is to use a pair of balanced (which is to say, two conductors plus shield) cables (one cable for the right channel and one cable for the left channel) with a 1/4-inch TRS phone plug on each end. Almost any mixer has a pair of balanced recording outputs with 1/4-inch TRS phone jacks. If your mixer does not have balanced recording outputs, get rid of it and purchase a decent mixer!

If you really wish to send an UNbalanced signal from the mixer to the DR-40, you have at least two options:

OPTION #1 :: Have a technician make a custom cable for you. The custom cable needs to terminate in a 1/4-inch TRS phone plug; for the wiring of the plug, refer your technician to http://www.rane.com/note110.html. But be warned that you may end up with hum which cannot be eliminated. And note that the standard level for consumer gear is -10 dBV, which is about 12 dB lower that the +4 dBu standard level for professional gear; the DR-40 may not have sufficient gain for proper recording of a -10 dBV signal.

OPTION #2 :: Purchase an unbalanced-to-balanced transformer or converter box. You can find these, nicely packaged with connectors, at audio supply houses such as bswusa.com and fullcompass.com and sweetwater.com and markertek.com. One economical converter box is manufactured by an outfit called ART; it is the "CLEANBoxPro" two-channel bi-directional level converter. And though a transformer or converter generally takes care of the -10 dBV to +4 dBu level difference, neither guarantees freedom from hum.

Your local guitar or music store likely has in stock either a cable or a transformer or a converter box.

ANOTHER OPTION :: Purchase a DR-07 or DR-05, both of which have an unbalanced input jack. But unbalanced inputs and outputs are susceptible to hum; that is why professionals use balanced inputs and outputs. In once instance, a DR-07 was used to record from the unbalanced output of a professional telephone interface (JK THAT-2), but it was necessary to run the DR-07 on batteries, because hum was terrible when using an AC supply.

P.S. To switch between the internal microphones and the external microphone, you need to use the menus of the DR-40; press the MENU key.
 
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Phono connections on a mixer are always INPUTS, so you can't record from them. A turntable has phono outputs. And I wouldn't worry too much about balanced or unbalanced; yes, if you can use balanced. But otherwise, if it doesn't produce a hum or other noise, use unbalanced by all means.
 
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Not so! I have a Yamaha MG102C with RCA jacks clearly labeled REC OUT; they are recorder outputs.

Today the term "phono" has nothing to do with phonographs. And the term "phonograph" hardly ever is used; for the past fifty years people have used a "turntable and tonearm" feeding an external amplifier.

Today the term "phono" commonly is used synonymously with "RCA". Before the advent of the 3.5 mm phone plug, most consumer gear used nothing other than RCA jacks for both input and output. And consumer components such as cassette decks, cd decks, am/fm tuners, and amplifers or receivers still use RCA jacks for both input and output.
 
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Hi All,

Thanks for the reply's, please bear with me as I am the drummer of the band so do not have a lot to do with setting up of the pa ect.
I am going to try using 2 stereo guitar leads, I am sure we will have somewhere on the mixing desk or the graphic that we can use as a send, just got to figure it out.
The thing I need to know if anyone can help is, how do I turn off the built in mics on the DR-40 so that I can record only direct from the mixer/or graphic.

Thanks

ShaunTCB
 
Phono is not synonymous with RCA. Anywhere, anytime. You can stop lecturing us.

Those REC OUT jacks are unbalanced line outs. Nothing to do with "phono," which is a preamplifier input for "turntable and tone arm" output. You're talking as if, for example, "mic" and "XLR" meant the same thing.
 
Also, the kind of hum that can be mitigated by an isolation transformer or running a recorder on batteries has nothing to do with balanced lines, and can just as easily be generated in balanced lines as unbalanced. It is commonly but erroneously called a "ground loop," and it happens when the electric service of two pieces of audio gear have different paths to ground of different lengths.

You should gather some more real world experience before teaching.
 
Also, I own a CleanBox that used to use to kill a ground loop between my console and a headphone distro amp in my live room, and it's not converting unbalanced lines to balanced lines or stepping up output from -10 to +4... It is simply using a transformer to isolate the ground paths of the two connected pieces of gear.

There's plenty of misinformation on the web. Please don't make more.
 
You are wrong on all counts, Zero-Gravity. In the first page of hits from a Google search on the string "phono pin jack", almost every entry equates "RCA" with "phono". The CleanBoxPro manufactured by ART uses electronics (op-amps) rather than a transformer to convert between balanced and unbalanced circuitry. The RANE application note which I referenced goes into detail regarding the cause of hum. I am an engineer who has been working with electronics since the 1950's.
 
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Finally, to Shaun TCB: Arjan is correct. You can use any prewired cable with the right jacks on both ends... You are not likely to be running a long enough cable to gather any induced noise even if the cable is unbalanced. To prevent ground loop hum, run the recorder on batteries OR plug it into the same outlet or power strip as the mixer: identical path to ground means no 60-cycle hum.

Here's how balanced lines actually work;

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balanced_audio
 
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In the first page of hits from a Google search on the string "phono pin jack", almost every entry equates "RCA" with "phono".
I am an engineer, and I have been working with electronics since the 1950's. Go back to your drums.

I figured Google was where you were getting your "information." Your search result is not surprising, as all phono jack are RCA. But not all RCA jacks are phono, which describes not a jack but an output level.

You must be a hell of an "engineer."
 
You are wrong on all counts, Zero-Gravity. In the first page of hits from a Google search on the string "phono pin jack", almost every entry equates "RCA" with "phono". The CleanBoxPro manufactured by ART uses electronics (op-amps) rather than a transformer to convert between balanced and unbalanced circuitry. The RANE application note which I referenced goes into detail regarding the cause of hum. I am an engineer who has been working with electronics since the 1950's.

Yeah, I heard you. 1950s. I apologize for confusing the CleanBoxII with the Pro. But your idea that a balanced line "guarantees" a noise-free input is preposterous.

And one more snide insult and I'll have you booted from this forum.
 
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ShaunTCB -

The only thing I found called a "stereo guitar lead" is a Y-cable which routes one guitar to the left channel and the other to the right channel. But that cable is not going to solve your problem, nor is any "guitar" cable. The problem is that guitars commonly use unbalanced lines, with a two-conductor phone plug (sleeve and tip, but no ring).

The DR-40 is designed for a balanced input, and the outputs of any decent mixer are balanced. So you need two conductors (plus shield) for the right channel, and two conductors (plus shield) for the left channel; this means that you need two cables, with each end of each cable having a three-conductor phone plug, with sleeve, tip, and ring.

I never have used the internal microphones of my DR-40, but after consulting the manual and going through the various menus, it appears to me that the internal microphones are turned off automatically whenever an external microphone is plugged it. But I cannot verify this, because the internal microphones on my DR-40 seem to have died, due to prolonged exposure to heat and humidity over the past several years. Electret condenser microphones tend to be delicate.
 
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http://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...qWUk8Ar51T4_NI9uIvhjTQZvdcYxvXC8TsaAu9_8P8HAQ

http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/131461854196?ul_noapp=true&chn=ps&lpid=82

http://www.amazon.com/Conquest-Sound-SGC3-21-21-Feet-Instrument/dp/B00EHDZ3YY/ref=sr_1_9?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1440872625&sr=1-9&keywords=instrument cable stereo

You might use these for a stereo instrument, or for a powered instrument that receives power from a foot pedal (like the Line 6 Variax).

By the way, I'm not a drummer.

Also, let's say you began your career as an "audio engineer since the 1950s" in 1955. Even if you began that career at the age of 10 (which is very unlikely), that would make you a 70 year old woman. If you started working at 20, that makes you an 80 year old woman. Which might explain your confusion.

I'm beginning to wonder about a lot of things, here.
 
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OMG, welcome to the forum, both Samantha and the attitude. I was going to answer all this nonsense, but thankfully Jim has taken care of speaking sensibly. Hopefully ShaunTCB got the answers he was looking for.
 
Hello everyone,

If by reopening this topic, I already committed felony, I apologize.

Here is the situation:

I haven't purchased a TASCAM yet.
Gear so far:
2 x audio technica LP120 (incl. USB exits)
1 x NUMARK mixer 101 (no USB exit)
1 x mac air 11''

Could you maybe suggest which TASCAM might help me record a 1 h mix?

Thank you!

Regards,
Alin
 

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