Consolidating tracks via export-import

[Sherpa666]

Hi - Okay I've read you can consolidate fragmented tracks by exporting and importing individual tracks to and from the audio depot. Problem is -- it only gives you a choice to import to empty tracks. Are you supposed to export all tracks to the audio depot and then erase all the original tracks? If anybody has tried this, would love to hear if it worked. The backups I save to my pc have so many files it's ridiculous and I'd like to simplify if possible. Thanks for any advice.

 

[Mark Richards]

Create a new song using the current one, and import. Lot's of tips about this in the "Equipment Related Tips" sticky thread.

 

[Sherpa666]

Thank you, Mark, will check them out.

 

[-mjk-]

#1: Read this.
#2: Step 1 would lead you to this.

 

[Sherpa666]

Thank you so much. Exactly what I needed, sorry I didn't get there before posting.

 

[shredd]

#2: Step 1 would lead you to this.

Hi @Mark Richards...I've actually got this printed out and have now done it 100% successfully a few times.

Time for the Village Idiot Moron Question Of The Day:
Would I achieve the same 'consolidation of fragmented tracks' if I:

1. Exported all tracks from the original project
2. Erased all tracks (and hence all the "zz" fragments) on the original project
3. Imported the tracks from A/Depot BACK into the original song?

Or is is a REQUIREMENT of this process to create a new song to import the exported tracks into?

 

[-mjk-]

@shredd, if you erased all the zz fragments, the internal system file would not know that. I believe that as soon as you tried to open the song it would crash/hang/do something bad.

Creating a new song makes a blank song and the system knows it's blank until you import or create audio files.

Creating a new song also keeps the original intact in case something does go wrong down the line.

But by all means try it and see. As long as you have a full backup of your SD card you can recover if it doesn't go right.

 

[Phil Tipping]

.... 2. Erased all tracks (and hence all the "zz" fragments) on the original project....
Or is is a REQUIREMENT of this process to create a new song to import the exported tracks into?

If your step 2 means deleting the zz fragments using a computer, then MJ is right; the song's integrity would be damaged. But as long as you use the delete functions on the machine, it will keep everything in order, so there is no requirement to start a fresh song. When you delete tracks, the old zz files become 'unused', and the import process will then create a single zz file for each imported track.
Having said that, it's safer to create a new song as this avoids having a state where you've deleted the tracks but not yet imported them... if anything went wrong at that point, it would be tricky to recover.
If you were worried about losing song settings by creating a fresh song, this won't be a problem as long as you create a new song after loading the original; the settings will be carried forwards.

 

[shredd]

If your step 2 means deleting the zz fragments using a computer, then MJ is right; the song's integrity would be damaged. But as long as you use the delete functions on the machine, it will keep everything in order, so there is no requirement to start a fresh song. When you delete tracks, the old zz files become 'unused', and the import process will then create a single zz file for each imported track.
Having said that, it's safer to create a new song as this avoids having a state where you've deleted the tracks but not yet imported them... if anything went wrong at that point, it would be tricky to recover.
If you were worried about losing song settings by creating a fresh song, this won't be a problem as long as you create a new song after loading the original; the settings will be carried forwards

THANKS mjk & Phil Tipping!
You're both right on the money - deleting the "zz" files only (as by a computer over USB) would SURELY hang the system. I never considered trying that!!!

What I was planning was exporting the original/fragmented tracks to A/Depot (so they're "contiguous"); deleting the tracks (not the "zz's") via the DP's menu system, leaving the originally created song intact; then import the "contiguous" tracks from A/Depot to their original locations, as in this post.
I have a song on my DP called "Testing", which I use to experiment. Maybe I'll try it there.

But - it DOES make more sense to simply create a new song, which (as PhilT points out) emulates the settings of the last loaded song. In my case, I'd probably rename my current song/project "X", and create a new song with the original song's actual name, and import there.

PS: UK news for @Phil Tipping : just found out a wonderful veteran new-age artist I enjoy named Medwyn Goodall lives practically down the street from my employer, who also lives in Cornwall. Maybe I could go over and visit, and we can all go out for tea & biscuits!

 

[Phil Tipping]

Well that's a blast from the past - we have a few of Medwyn's CDs... but don't want to hijack the thread so will PM you

 

[shredd]

OK kidlets...did an extensive experimentation with this. Yeeees, I have absolutely nothing else in life to do...don't rub it in.
I did this on my O/G DP-32, on a 16-bit/44K project of about 10-11 tracks (3 mono/4 stereo, some partial), 4 minutes overall length; original SD card space used was about 175MB.
Will relate in FULL detail, with my results/conclusions in red. I hope this post is coherent enough to explain.
The actual steps I took will be listed at the bottom, since you'll surely be PLENTY tired of reading about it by then.
Here we go:

My experiment was to see if I could conduct the export/import operation (for the purpose of consolidating tracks from their composition of many "zz" fragments into a single "zz" for each track) on an EXISTING song, rather than exporting them to a newly-created song.

The short version: YES - I was able to successfully do so. WITH some caveats:

When you import a track from A/Depot, it exists as a full-length track (the entire length of the song, regardless of its' contents).
This also means, of course, that the total space occupied on the SD card by the song is now considerably larger.
And VERY interestingly: if you go to the trouble of "silencing" the parts of imported track/s to reduce their size - you end up with the multiple "zz" segments you were trying to relieve the DP of the task of organizing into a single track! (though this presumable takes up less space on the SD card).

So it would seem that if you're going to take the trouble to do this operation (for the purpose of reducing the number of "zz" segments compromising all your tracks, in hopes of better stability of DP operations), you'll be doing so at the expense of more SD space occupied by the project (regardless of whether you do it to the existing song, or create a new one).

What I did:

1. I renamed the project from its' FULL name to a single character (in this case, the first of the song's name, "C"); it was renamed to its' original name after it was all done.
2. I exported all tracks to A/Depot (don't forget that stereo tracks must have BOTH sides exported separately, e.g. tracks 9 AND 10). Because I truncated the projects' name to one character, all were exported to A/Depot with the original track number included in its' name.
3. I then used the TrackEdit button and the [Clean Out] command, setting to [ALL] to clean out ALL tracks of the project, leaving it "empty".
4. I then imported all tracks via A/Depot to their original track locations (you're given this choice during the import process). Note that you can select [all] tracks to export at once, but when you import, it's done one track at a time).
5. ALL tracks were in place in their original locations; however, as noted above, ALL tracks were now the length of the entire song, which simultaneously reduced the number of "zz" segments, but significantly increased the size of the project on the SD card (to about 315MB). BUT: I suspect that if you have the SD-card space to spare, you're better off with more space taken by less "zz" segments, so the chances of the DP having problems "organizing" all the "zz" bits into a track is reduced. YMMV.

AND OF COURSE: BACK UP YOUR WORK before messing with any of this!!!

 

[-mjk-]

@shredd, did you execute a Delete Unused command after you cleaned out the tracks? Cleaning out tracks does not delete the data on the machine. It only tells the machine not to use those audio files. Delete Unused gets rid of the orphan files. I've had Delete Unused gain back a significant amount of SD card space.

 

[shredd]

did you execute a Delete Unused command

That'd be "yes" - I'm familiar with the [Delete Unused] command, and in fact use it regularly, for the very reasons you mentioned (keeping the unused fragments of countless takes/retakes/edits cleaned out).

 

[-mjk-]

That'd be "yes" - I'm familiar with the [Delete Unused] command, and in fact use it regularly, for the very reasons you mentioned (keeping the unused fragments of countless takes/retakes/edits cleaned out).

Then I do not understand how/why the amount of space taken up on the SD card would be greater after the consolidation process.

 

[shredd]

Then I do not understand how/why the amount of space taken up on the SD card would be greater after the consolidation process.

I was similarly confused by this.
I’m no rocket surgeon, but I’d guess it’s because the small segments of recorded material that made up my tracks (when re-imported) were inserted into a track that was the length of the entire song; so even though each held a few 10-20 second bits, the track is now the file size of a 4-minute take.
That’s my theory & I’m sticking to it, until the guy that wrote the code for the DP calls me back…

 

[shredd]

Another installment of riveting reading on this topic:

I took a song-in-progress that I don't realllly care about (for one, it's backed up; for another, it's really just studio-noodling/meandering...I could start over and be back where I am in an hour).
But I wanted to see if this 'consolidating tracks' thing works.
Sure enough, this song (consisting of 5 mono and 3 stereo tracks) had the song's folder in the DP's [SONG] main folder just FULL of "zz" tracks - I'd say at least 100, from all my punching in/out, editing, etc. And that's AFTER running [DeleteUnused]!

So here's what I did:

• Exported all tracks to AudioDepot.
• Imported them BACK into the song to empty tracks (to check each to make sure they exported in whole form...all good).
• Used [CloneTrack] to put each imported track back into its' original place.
• Used [CleanOut] on every imported track.
• Ran [DeleteUnused].

The song sounded exactly as before.
BUT: while I expected the tracks to have been 'consolidated' from the export->import...they were not. The [SONG] folder had exactly as many "zz" track fragments as before. Like 100 of them.

So clearly my barn-job approach didn't work. I'm going to try it again using the "Dr. @-mjk- "-recommended method, and see if that works...

 

[Phil Tipping]

Are steps 3 & 4 in the right order? I didn't think clone track (step 3) would let you clone over an occupied track.

 

[shredd]

Are steps 3 & 4 in the right order? I didn't think clone track (step 3) would let you clone over an occupied track.

Um...didn't know that...when I executed it for each track, there was no 'error' message, such as "track not cloned" or "target track not empty" or anything...
SO...yuh-huh...that does make sense (as to why the outcome was no change in the [SONG] folder's contents...NOTHING HAPPENED!

SO: I'm gonna try it again, cleaning out the original target tracks first. OR do it the "right" way, by creating a whole new song. Stay tuned for another riveting update.
Thanks @Phil Tipping for pointing that out...as a musician, being stewpyd is SUCH a P.I.T.A.!!!

 

[Phil Tipping]

Don't throw the towel in just yet - it could very well be me
I said I didn't think it could be done as I'm not near the machine to confirm. Let us know what happens.
Update1: have now checked, and 'clone' does overwrite the destination track regardless of its contents... so it's me who is wrong
Update2: are you being precise when you counted the zz files before and after? You said "... at least 100".
If the count is not exactly the same, the consolidation may have taken place as expected, in which case there should be 1 extra zz file per new track. If so, maybe the clone method has orphaned the original zz files completely so the machine does not know they belong to that song, and would explain why 'delete unused' failed to delete them. If that is the case, my hunch is that they may no longer be a potential cause of glitches; the only harm they are doing is taking up space on the card. We'll await your findings.

 

[shredd]

UPDATE/RESULTS:
Well - I can't confirm that the exact count of 'zz' files was identical...
BUT: I did run through some new scenarios.

I thought if I did the "consolidation" (via export then import) and THEN used [DeleteUnused], all those junque zz's would be gone. Not so.
SO: I think that - as usual - @Phil Tipping is exactly right: the "consolidation" procedure probaby DOES create a single, song-length "zz" for each track (it never occurred to me to look for a new/large zz trk; I was just looking for the oodles of little zz's to be gone!)...and essentially "abandons"/stops keeping track of all the old zz fragments that consituted each track...so the DP has a MUUUCH easier time handling the newly-consolidated track, and probably "ignores" the many little fragments, which are now just taking up space.

I tried a couple of new scenarios/procedures:

I attempted this:
[Export] all tracks to AudioDepot
[CleanOut] all tracks
[Import] all tracks to original locations
This procedure did NOT reduce the # of zz's, nor did running [DeleteUnused].

So I attempted this (using the recommended procedure)
Created [NewSong] from the original (so the settings/routings would be the same)
[Exported] all trax from original song
[Imported] all trax to new song
This procedure DID reduce the # of zz's to approx the # of tracks in the soung (about 10-12?).

SO: after all this time-wasting experimentation by me (in the name of finding an "easier" way to do this 'consolidation') - not to mention a long-winded thread...the conclusion is:
DO IT THE WAY @Mark Richards SPECIFIED - THAT's the one that works.

Being stewpyd is SUCH a burden...