Demoitis

[-mjk-]

I think at one point or another everyone of us has become overly attached to something that we did, just because we listened to it so many times. It's not unusual for artists to be disappointed with the mix done by an outside engineer or studio, just because it sounds different. It really takes a certain kind of mindset to play something and be able to listen to it as if you've never heard it before. If an artist or engineer can develop that quality, it will help them tremendously throughout their career.

Check out this hilarious video where Rick Beato gives some real-life experiences of demoitis:

 

[Arjan P]

Wow, that guy makes great videos. Just had to finish watching his video on Tool's Schism - fantastic! (What makes this song great series)

 

[-mjk-]

Yes, he's quite good. You should check out his series episode on Boston.

I was thinking today, that we might wanna start a recording anecdotes thread, because I definitely have some funny stories to tell but they all have good lessons to learn.

 

[skier]

Wow! I've been through this before, and on both sides. It's so true how we can get attached to those nuances, even though we may have hated some of those nuances the first few times we heard them in the recording. It certainly exemplifies how much we humans are creatures of habit, just like any other mammal. Habit breeds comfort. (Now I have justification for trading in any cheaper gear I have for the best there is... if I only had more money... hmmmm...)

 

[skier]

I was thinking today, that we might wanna start a recording anecdotes thread, because I definitely have some funny stories to tell but they all have good lessons to learn.)

That is a good idea!

 

[-mjk-]

I'll consider doing that in the General Chat forum. It'll be about recording, but it won't be necessarily instructional, lol.

 

[-mjk-]

@skier early on in my career as a producer, I recognized that I had the ability to listen to something in the context of it being the first time I ever heard it. It took me quite some time however, to figure out that not many other people could do that. I thought it was normal to be able to do that. It is not.

During mixing sessions, I would ask the band what they thought about certain adjustments to the mix, and often the only comment I would get was "That's different". Well of course I knew it was different, but what I wanted them to tell me was whether they liked it or not. More often than not, they couldn't say.

I've had some artists talk about being "protective" of their songs. But since I wasn't a threat to their intellectual property, again it took me some time to figure out that what they were saying was, they heard something in their head and it was etched in stone. I can imagine how frustrating it is for a songwriter who is not a recording engineer, to go into a studio and try to get something they hear in their head to come out of the speakers. I really can appreciate that. It's all about interpretation. I have done sessions in English, Spanish, Chinese, and Thai languages. There are universal concepts of course like flat and sharp, but everything else is subjective. That's why producers exist. And, once you settle on a producer, you must trust him or her to deliver the product.

Wow, I really went off on that one!

 

[BRADEL Christophe]

Thank you very much MJK for making me discover this great man. And, indeed, when I listen to my work, throughout its evolution, I try to have a new ear, to listen to it as if I had never heard it. It is not easy, but the simple act of trying helps to discern.
What Rick says about the importance of recording the first demo is true for a very simple reason: recording is not just a "technical operation" but above all an artistic process. So if we do the recording and mixing only from a technical point of view, it will work less well than if we do it with a real quest for the creative ideal.
I think Rick is good because he's both a technician and a real artist at the same time.
I have a lot to learn...

 

[-mjk-]

We all do!

 

[skier]

One of the things that confuses the issue even more is the “fortuitous discovery”, namely, any of the players/singers/engineers will occasionally do something that was not planned, but definitely seems to improve the song, such as a little tasty on the guitar or drums, a fader or panning change at precisely a great but initially unplanned time, etc. Our repeated listening solidifies these things as part of the song in our minds. If we should later re-record the song and one or more of these things we liked are not there, the song sounds diminished, at least in our mind. The difficulty is being objective enough to truly evaluate the overall re-recorded song rather than just a few things newly added or subtracted from it. But that’s not easy if we’re missing something we really liked.

My approach to improving a song has often been to remove the things I don’t like (a mistake, a dissonant note or chord I or someone else thought would work, etc.) That’s especially easy with something like Melodyne, where I’ve even changed a chord from minor to major or in reverse as well as making a chord a 7th, 9th, etc. after the fact. HOWEVER, if the song was a turd, it’s still a turd, even though repeated listening got us used to it, perhaps even in love with it. It’s hard to be objective in those situations, because to everyone who hasn’t been listening to this song over and over, it’s still a turd. And as the saying goes, you really can’t polish one.

MJ’s comment that he can re-listen to a song objectively even though he’s heard it many times before is truly a powerful ability – I don’t think I have that ability, though I’ve never truly tested it and this discussion tells me that I really should try. If I can do it, I’ll have a achieved something valuable. If I should instead learn that I can’t do it, then at least I know that I need the ears of others to avoid creating the aforementioned occasional “turd”.