DM3200, El Capitan & MIDI Timecode = Intermittent Loss of Sync?

[JHTorch]

I thought that all was OK to upgrade from Yosemite to El Capitan but it appears as if it is causing issues with MIDI Time code reliability. Both in Cubase 8.5 and Pro Tools 11 (worse in PT), the MTC counter on the DM3200 freezes -- sometimes for up to 30-60 seconds; however, the audio normally plays back fine. Additionally, the level metering per channel will also freeze both on the meter bridge and on the DM3200 itself. The faders on the DM3200 are very slow in moving the faders on the DAW's mixer.

I have tried using the DAW as the master and the DM3200 as the master and I still get a problem. When I take the MTC sync out of the equation, no issues with the metering.

Any other El Capitan users having this issue with the DM3200/DM4800? Any workarounds? Suggestions? The one thing that I'm thinking of doing is replacing the USB cable that I have been using since buying the board.

 

[cmaffia]

Do any earlier MAC versions of Cubase have this problem using the same OS? Have you tried earlier versions?

 

[AudioWave]

I've never found DM reading MTC from DAW reliable using DM or IFF-FW MIDI ports. Try using a separate dedicated MIDI interface. Has been solid since I did that a few years ago.

 

[JHTorch]

Do any earlier MAC versions of Cubase have this problem using the same OS? Have you tried earlier versions?

Not sure. When I initially started to work with the initial release of Cubase 8.0 on the PC (Windows 7) I had an audio spiking issue with MTC but not on the Mac. That issue was fixed by the first interim update. I did not test the last version of Cubase 8.0 on El Capitan but it is still on my Mac so I guess I could try it.

 

[JHTorch]

AudioWave: I have an old (though reliable) MOTU USB 8 x 8 MIDI interface that connects via USB. Are you saying that I may get better MTC stability if I connect the MIDI in/out of the board to the interface? What device should generate the MTC: Cubase, the DM or the MIDI interface in such a setup? I have to double check but I believe that my MIDI interface does in fact generate MTC.

 

[cmaffia]

I had that MTC spike issue and posted a video of it. Steinberg fixed it in the last 8.0 patch. Not having that issue with 8.5. May be a Mac related issue. Not a Mac user so I won't be much help.

 

[JHTorch]

CMaffia:

I have not had that audio spiking issue since the Steinberg fix on either platform and in fact I never had it on the Mac. My present issue is only responsiveness of the board as a control surface. For example, if I try a fader move on the board, there will be several seconds for Cubase to follow the move. Likewise, if I make a fader move in Cubase, the board will not mirror the move for several seconds. This happens whether I'm using my Orion 32+ as the audio interface or if I use the board's firewire card. It also happens whether I set Cubase or the DM 3200 as the MTC master.

I did not have this issue when I had Yosemite as my Mac OS.

Curiously, the problem is worse using Pro Tools 11 BUT non-existent in Adobe Premiere. However, Premiere's MTC implementation is very basic. Yet, my fader moves in Premiere are spot-on, though frankly, since Premiere is a video editing app and not a true DAW, I haven't done any extensive testing in Premiere. I will try automating audio fader and mute moves in Premiere and see if I get the same sluggishness on the board. BTW, I use the board's Cubase Mackie Control implementation to control Premiere.

 

[cmaffia]

I'm really having a hard time understanding if the issue is happening on one or multiple machines, on a Mac, PC, OS...Very confusing.

If you have a Mac and a PC does the problem happen on both platforms or just the Mac?

In any event, first thing to rule out is if the issue is a defect in the board itself. Troubleshooting 101: Strip down to basics, unplug all other USB devices except for the DM connectivity and see if your results are different. You may have a USB conflict somewhere but again I'm not sure because I'm having s really hard time mapping out your setup in my mind.

 

[AudioWave]

AudioWave: I have an old (though reliable) MOTU USB 8 x 8 MIDI interface that connects via USB. Are you saying that I may get better MTC stability if I connect the MIDI in/out of the board to the interface? What device should generate the MTC: Cubase, the DM or the MIDI interface in such a setup? I have to double check but I believe that my MIDI interface does in fact generate MTC.

Sorry. I think faster than I type, Meant to say DM USB MTC has never been reliable for me on Mac or Windows and using separate dedicated MIDI interface to the DM MIDI ports solved dropout and most stutter issues with Cubase & Nuendo. DM overall, or at least mine, seems to have realtime MTC issues with MTC counter update lags via USB that improves with using a separate MIDI interface.

Yes, Cubase should generate the MTC to the computer MIDI interface output port to the DM MIDI input port.

 

[JHTorch]

I'm really having a hard time understanding if the issue is happening on one or multiple machines, on a Mac, PC, OS...Very confusing.

If you have a Mac and a PC does the problem happen on both platforms or just the Mac?

In any event, first thing to rule out is if the issue is a defect in the board itself. Troubleshooting 101: Strip down to basics, unplug all other USB devices except for the DM connectivity and see if your results are different. You may have a USB conflict somewhere but again I'm not sure because I'm having s really hard time mapping out your setup in my mind.

It is a problem that arose ONLY after I "upgraded" to El Capitan from Yosemite on the Mac. My initial issue after upgrading was that the board's firewire card was not being recognized by my Mac. I downloaded and installed one of the latest beta driver and the firewire card shows up and works fine, no issues. However, I then noticed that my SMPTE/MTC counter was "sticking" a bit as well as the audio levels on the meter bridge and the LCD meter. However, the audio itself was playing back fine. I also noticed that the board working in the remote layer was also slow to respond.

I took the PC out of my workflow but I can hook it back up to see if I get the issue or not. If it seems to be an OS X El Capitan issue only, then I'll try AudioWave's suggestion. If that doesn't work, I may just go to Tekserve and have them roll me back to Yosemite and reinstall everything.

 

[JHTorch]

Thanks guys and thank you AudioWave for the clarification. It sounds like, prior to your implementation of the MIDI interface, you were having the same problem that I am experiencing. Mine just became apparent once I upgraded to El Capitan. Never had the issue with Yosemite

 

[AudioWave]

Glad to be of help. Note that if you boot from a Ext HD or SSD into Yosemite you could likely have it back to how it was. At the very least you could further trouble shoot and compare.

 

[JHTorch]

Just wanted to update everyone. I fixed the problem, though I don't understand why it's working. I had to do some updating to my hardware setup and opened the back of the Argosy console. I re-connected the MIDI cable, running from the MIDI out of the board to the MIDI in of the firewire card. Rebooted the board and now everything is playing back perfectly. No freezing of the audio meters or the SMPTE counter on the board and the remote layer is responsive. Haven't check in Pro Tools yet but Cubase 8.5 is perfect again. While I'm happy again (particularly since I added the SSL 611 EQ to my lunchbox -- killer piece), I don't understand why this makes a difference since the MTC is traveling through the USB MIDI port. But it's working and I'm happy!!

 

[cmaffia]

Sounds like your midi cable or the Tascam midi connectors were dirty and the simple act of unplugging and plugging them may have cleaned the contacts. I'd blast them with connector cleaner and work them in the midi jacks for 10 seconds.

 

[JHTorch]

Thanks, although I'm at a loss to understand why. This cable was NOT carrying the MTC; the USB MIDI port was/is. It's been so long since I initially setup the board but I do not remember any instructions to connect a MIDI out cable from the board to in MIDI in of the firewire card. Does anyone else here do that? I remember Jamshire originally suggested doing this.

 

[cmaffia]

The MIDI outs from the DM is used strictly for MTC and External Controls