Need Help DP-24SD Normalization problems & More!

[Tony Ireland]

Hi there,
I´m working with my second DP-24SD using a SanDisk SDSDXPA-32G.ExtremePro card. I had to send the first desk back as the Normalization/Normalising process was ruining my mixdown, EQ, Compression, EFX etc...the mastering after normalising was a mess, the track jumping about all over the place, also the sound became far too fat. I spent a lot of time trying to compensate and also phoned Teac/Tascam in Heidelberg, Germany, three times - in the end they couldn´t really help and suggested I send the first one back to my supplier (the biggest and best in Germany), talk to the experts there and get a new one. I also told TEAC about a mistake in the manual where after Normalizing one should get "are you sure" which doesn´t happen, and no F2 Yes button appears - only F1 -going back to the home screen. You don´t know if Normalizing has been completed or applied. They agreed with me and promised to change or sort this in the German and English manuals. If I leave out Normalizing then there´s absolutely no problem.

I´m now approaching the end of my 30 days grace with the second DP 24SD and yesterday I mixed down a very simple acoustic/folky song with just my voice/vocal and my Takamine Acoustic guitar with cooltubepreamp & TriAx pickup - 3 tracks altogether. After applying EQ and compression I tried the normalizing button and then went on to mastering it. Same problem again! No F2 and the song leaps about all over the shop....there are gaps......dreadful. Is it me or is it the card? I´m swithering whether to send the second one back with the same complaint as with the first one, or just keep it and ignore the Normalization problem completely and carry on regardless. I´ve already spent nearly 8 weeks on it and am trying to get a really good Demo together. What do you think I should do? Despite the problems I´ve described, I´m very impressed by the sound quality - and I don´t think I´m doing everything wrong.

Has anybody else had this or these problems?

I´d be very much obliged for any help.

Tony

 

[Phil Tipping]

Hi Tony, can only speak for the dp32sd but for what it's worth the yes/no prompt always appears and seems to work as expected. Are you using the latest firmware - I'm on v1.01 0006 but this may be different to the dp24sd. When you're playing back the EQ/COMP'd file in mastering mode, you need to turn off the EQ & COMP options as they apply to whatever is playing so you'll get a double dose. NORM is different as it causes the file to be processed offline. Not quite sure of your process/terminology "After applying EQ and compression I tried the normalizing button and then went on to mastering it". Are you applying EQ & compression during mixdown or mastering? I thought applying EQ/COMP/NORM was the mastering process, so what is it you do afterwards?
Update: the manual recommends to use NORM after EQ/COMP, otherwise it may distort. So the overall process should be: mixdown tracks with gain/eq/fx/comp applied to tracks, then master with eq/comp applied, then normalise.

 

[Tony Ireland]

Hi Phil, thanks a bunch for your quick response. Just come off the phone from TEAC, Europe in Wiesbaden (not Heidelberg, sorry) and I am using the latest firmware, System Version 1.01 0008.
They suggested I mix-down, then master with EQ & COMP and RECORD without NORM. Then I should simply NORM and not record again. When I phoned them about the first desk they suggested I leave out normalisation altogether!
I read the manual again and gathered that you have to turn off EQ & COMP when playing back - the problem is with the manual- the process simply isn´t clear, even for an old ex-pat and folkie.
After mixing down, I apply EQ and COMP when mastering, then I normalise and then press record for the final mastered version on the card - that´s when the recording goes haywire.
That´s the process I understood from the manual. The manual is incorrect, contradictory and confusing - IMHO.

Hope this is clear and understandable for you. Can´t wait for your reply! I´ve been following your posts

Cheers

Tony

 

[Phil Tipping]

Ok Tony, yes it is a bit confusing, and your NORM step is definitely incorrect. When you press Record in mastering mode, the mixdown file is processed in real time with the EQ/COMP settings and is overwritten. It's then that you should press NORM if you want the file normalising, and the master file will be overwritten again, this time in non-realtime, i.e. you don't press play or record. You can press Undo if it's not right, but it only keeps a single backup copy of the master file so you can only go back one step.
If you press play in mastering mode, you're just hearing the master file (whatever state it's in). The EQ/COMP settings on the mastering screen are always applied to this playback so you can check how it sounds before committing (i.e. before you press record). Once you're happy with the settings, press record and a new master file is created with these EQ/COMP settings. If you press play again, you'll hear the new mastered file, but again this will be affected by any EQ/COMP settings which is why you need to turn them off when checking. Hope that helps.

 

[Tony Ireland]

Thanks, Phil. Got ya! You´ve saved my bacon. What you say ties in more or less with what the guy from TEAC said. You´ve just explained it better! A great help. Many , many thanks. TEAC could do with someone like you.

Tony

 

[Phil Tipping]

Ok Tony, happy to help. It's a learning curve for me too as I only use mine for recording (mixing & mastering is done out of the box), but it's interesting checking out the other functions and seeing what I'm missing
Just to conclude this, is the missing yes/no NORM prompt still a problem or is it just that you were expecting it at the wrong point?

 

[Tony Ireland]

Hi Phil,
Sorry I haven't replied..... Brexit......other commitments.
I'll let you know at the weekend how the next Normalization goes using your recommended process.
Thanks again for your help.
Tony

 

[Tony Ireland]

Hi there again Phil,
Finally got round to recording another song today. Followed your process and everything worked out fine, but after mastering, I normalized - without pressing record - this F2 Yes "prompt" still didn´t function as described in the manual, so I´m not sure whether it´s really happened or not. I can´t hear a great deal of difference - it actually sounds thinner and I was not expecting it at the wrong point this time! I´ve decided, though, to keep the desk and soldier on, trying to improve my recording acumen and salvage some of the time spent on the second DP24 I´ve had delivered. Despite this, I shall to continue to take issue with teac/tascam in Wiesbaden.
Lang may yer lum reek, cheers, Tony

 

[Phil Tipping]

Ok Tony, thanks for the update. I can't replicate that on mine - it always prompts, and when you press F2 it always shows a progress bar during the process. Any other users out there who can shed some light on this?
btw - had a good laugh looking up your phrase