Printing internal send effects

[rob sheard]

Hi, as a newbie to this site, just got to say how pleased i am overall with the dp32sd. Since 2007 i have been using my trusty zoom mrs 1608 and the tascam is a great machine and in my eyes a logical upgrade without going down the daw route. Thanks goes to Phil Tipping of course for making the learning curve as painless as possible! I know this is a perrenial question about internal send effects but here goes.... So on track one i record acoustic guitar with a nice touch of compression using input dynamic effect. On track 2 i record a high strung nashville guitar, again with a bit of compression. So now i want to bounce track 1 and 2 to stereo tracks 9/10 and record the 2 guitars panned hard right and left, with reverb. Meaning that track 9/10 has the reverb actually printed onto that track. I get how to set up the sends, and i can hear the effect on the bounced track... but...when i turn the send effect off to check the reverb has actually printed to the track, the reverb disappears, suggesting to me that i cannot actually print the effect using bounce, only mixdown. Sorry for the lengthy post, i guess im missing something obvious, but before i get on ebay and pick up something like a lexicon mx200 to serve all my effects needs, it would be nice to know is this is possible (or not) and how.

 

[David Porter]

When you get everything set - send settings and reverb effect settings - and you enter Bounce mode and set the Monitor select button to Bounce and then press "Play" - do you hear the effect in the headphones (or monitors outs)?

 

[rob sheard]

hello, thanks for your reply....sorry its taken me a while to get back to you. In answer to your question i can hear the reverb effect while monitoring on headphones with the monitor selected to bounce. tracks 1 is panned hard left, track 2 is hard right, sends in track 1 and 2 are 127 and set to post fader and master sends are full on. the track faders in tracks 1 and 2 are set to 0 db. The bounce destination track ie 9/10 sends are 127 post, master 127. so whilst monitoring with monitor select set to bounce and pressing play, i can hear the reverb , when i lower track 1 and 2 faders i hear nothing and when i bring up the destination track fader i hear nothing, but because im just playing the track and not recording i expect this. Again many thanks for your input, its greatly appreciated.

 

[-mjk-]

Rob, if the record arm buttons are enabled on the bounce destination tracks, you should hear the tracks in the 2-mix when the faders are up. If you don't hear anything with the destination faders up and the tracks armed, the assignments are not right.

 

[Mark Richards]

Rob, a thread earlier this year may give you some ways to test/troubleshoot your signal flow:
http://www.tascamforums.com/threads/my-reverb-delay.5180/#post-25332
and
http://www.tascamforums.com/threads/my-reverb-delay.5180/#post-25337

 

[rob sheard]

hello to all on the forum, and help... yes im still grappling with how to print reverb onto bounced tracks. Phil Tipping in the mixdown v bounce video says that bounce is a way around the much quoted lack of effects question, but im now pretty much at a loss, even maybe thinking there is a fault with my machine. Im still trying to bounce 2 acoustic guitar tracks as in my first post but whatever i seem to try when the bounce is finished and the 2 guitars are nicely recorded on 9/10, when i turn the send reverb off from the effects screen..... guess what.....effect gone and back to a dry bounce. any suggestions would be much appreciated! many thanks Rob.

 

[David Porter]

I just did a quick test.

Fresh song - all settings cleared.

Recorded 10 seconds of dry vocal audio on track 7. Rewind, change routing to tr 8 - did the same. Now I have dry mono vocals on tracks 7 and 8.

Go to TRACK (not INPUT) mixer screen for track 7, and set Send 1 to post, Send 1 level to 100, Send 1 master level to maximum. Did the same for track 8 - identical settings.

Then opened the "Effects" screen and made sure I'm looking at the SEND effects - in this case I have chosen Reverb and set it to "Plate" reverb, turned the effect "On" (screen indicators turn pink), and raised the effect return level to 110.

Entered bounce mode. Pressed Select buttons of tracks 7 and 8 (they're lit green), pressed destination bounce tracks 9/10 Record button - now blinking red (armed).

Raised faders for tracks 7 and 8 - and raised the 9/10 recording destination track fader so I can hear what's happening on the stereo bus. Pressed record until end of recording. Rewind to zero.

Went back to MultiTrack mode from Bounce mode. Pressed play.... both source tracks which are now bounced to 9/10 have rich reverb on both.

Hoping for you that you have a settings issue and not a problem with your machine.

 

[Mark Richards]

Rob, I just re-read your post #3. Tracks 9/10 Send 1 should be off. It has nothing to do with what you are trying to accomplish.

To trouble shoot this, do these exactly, in the listed order:

1. Set Track 9/10 Send 1 OFF
2. Set your Track 1&2 Send1s to Pre. This gives you control of the send 1 levels independent of the Track faders.
3. Set your Send 1 Master to 127.
4. Set your Track 1&2 Send 1s to desired level.
5. Set your Reverb levels as desired on the Effects screen.
6. Set your Track 1&2 Faders to the desired level.
7. Set your Track 1&2 Pan controls.
8. Set your Master Stereo fader to Unity Gain (0dB).
9. Press Play. Listen to the result on the stereo bus or monitor bus. You should hear the original signal panned and with reverb.

NOW, enter Bounce mode.

1. Set the Monitor to Bounce
2. Arm Record for Track 9/10
3. Select Track 1&2
4. Press Play. You are now monitoring the Bounce Bus signal going to Track 9/10 and should hear Tracks 1&2 panned and with Reverb.
5. Rewind and press Record.
6. When recording is done, unarm Track 9/10, unselect Tracks1&2.
7. Exit Bounce mode.

Evaluate result:

1. Set Monitor back to Stereo bus
2. Rewind
3. Bring Tracks1&2 Faders all the way down
4. Turn Tracks 1&2 Send1s OFF
5. Turn Send 1 Master OFF
6. Turn Effects OFF on the Effects screen.
7. Bring Tracks 9/10 Fader to Unity Gain
8. Press Play
9. You SHOULD hear the original Tracks, now on Track 9/10, panned and with reverb printed to the track.

Oh, Kay . While I was writing this, David jumped in. Between the two of us I hope you get this resolved. Good luck!

 

[rob sheard]

Thanks so much guys... too late tonight here but I will go through all your suggestions tomorrow night. Thanks again rob

 

[rob sheard]

hi guys and thanks again for your input yersterday. I have tried both suggestions 3 times and im still unable to print the reverb. I hear it in play bounce mode, but after recording it, still no reverb... any further suggestions greatly appreciated. thanks Rob

 

[Mark Richards]

Rob, The processes David and I posted are how it's done. Have you the latest firmware update? Other than the outside possibility it's an outdated firmware issue, I'm at a loss why it isn't working for you.

One last test: go into Mixdown mode and record a test mix (i.e., add this Mixdown as step 10 in the first section of the trouble shooting in post #8) to see if the reverb prints during Mixdown. That may help narrow things down for you.

I know how frustrating things like this can be. Hope you get it figured out.

 

[rob sheard]

SUCCESS! Thanks guys for all your input and patience! I have been steadily convincing myself that my unit was faulty, as i tried everything suggested above but to no avail. I did the firmware update a few days ago, which didnt cure the problem. What HAS fixed it was doing a full format on my sd card. Now im a very meticulous person when recording and all things audio, but what i have not been doing is following the correct procedure for dismounting the sd card from my computer, ie. using the safely eject icon at the bottom right of the screen. I have just used the disconnect button on the unit, so im guessing that i have corrupted the data on the card in some way that did not allow the send effects to be registered. Phil Tipping in one of the tutorial videos does warn about ending the usb link correctly, but let it be a lesson to anyone out there who thinks oh its fine i'll just disconnect from the unit.... you can corrupt your card. Looking on the positive side, I certainly know how to bounce tracks with send effects now! Over the next few weeks im building a new work area and rackmount cabinets in my studio and i really wanted to solve my effects problem before i begin to dismantle my gear and temporarily store everything, which im trying to complete before we get too near christmas... all good fun i guess....anyway thanks again guys for your help its much appreciated, Rob.

 

[David Porter]

Outstanding! Glad to hear it.

 

[-mjk-]

I certainly know how to bounce tracks with send effects now!

Rob, for critical, complex bounces (which are submixes) I use Mixdown mode. I set all the tracks up as of I were doing a final mix, panning the sources, FX and returns, adding appropriate EQ, etc.. I may temporarily bring up the drums, other instruments, vocals, or whatever just to see how the submix will sit in the final mix. Then I mute everything else and just make a full mixdown of only those tracks that I want to bounce together. When finished, I go into Mastering mode to add appropriate mastering tools. In the case of submixing drum tracks, I find that multiband compression does wonders for the tracks in the final mix, and prevents drum dynamics from overly influencing the mastering compression on the final mix.

After I have a stereo mixdown track, I copy it to the Audio Depot folder and import it back into the song as a complete, polished submix that I could never get with Bounce mode.

This technique allows one to really optimize the multiband compression and EQ for each component of a song. The requirements for vocals are completely different than drums, for example. Having sets of optimized submixed tracks makes mixing a breeze and doesn't require such aggressive post processing on the completed mix.

 

[rob sheard]

Thank you mjk, when I finish setting up my new studio work space and finally get back to recording, I will certainly experiment with sub mixing my tracks. I can see how working this way would help simplify the whole process and optimise the use of effects. Thank you for sharing this, rob