Question about what mixer might be practical with a Tascam 38 8

[Olaf Ben]

Hello all Tascam owners,

I bought myself a Tascam 38 8 channels / tracks, got I two days ago and I am recuperating from a slight pain in the back lower left side, not easy to carry from the Taxi and into my apartment, luckily I am on 2d floor only.

I only turned it on and it lights up, I do not have any mixer yet nor any 2x Tascam DX-4D DBX, is there a non Tascam brand that might work ? Reading through the manual there are issues if the voltages are different, that I noticed also from other forums on the net.

The owner that sold me the 38 told me he was using just a Soundcraft EPM-8, without any issues ..., I was just wondering if any of these would be recommended as being of the same brand as the 38 itself :
Tascam M-30, Tascam M-80, Tascam M-08 8 or M-208

Or if you folks are using other brands that are perhaps more performant as being of recent make, that work fine with your Tascam 38 or equivalent ?

Any advice would be precious, so I can get me 38 updrafts and running and actually "hear" if there are any issues with it.

Olaf

 

[Laszlo]

Hello Olaf,

I have a Tascam 34B and also own an M 208 and an M 106 mixer. The M 208 was designed around the same years for the 3x series tape recorders, so I strongly recommend to find one on the market, it is still relatively easy. The 208 also is the first rack mountable Tascam mixer.. I fully dissassembled and refurbished my 208, recapped, and made some upgrades. It is not an overcomplicated design, but flexible enough to make all the usual tricks. It has 8 input channels, and 4 PGM outs, meaning that you can record parallely on 4 channels. Usually it is enough. For the mixdown, you can use al the 8 input channels. In case you dont want to change the inputs for recording and mixdown, you might be better of with the Tascam 216 which is the same machine but with 16 input channels.
As for the levels, you are right, the consumer and semiprofessional grade Japanese machines used -10dBV (0,3V) unbalanced in and outs, and 0dBu (0,775V) balanced ones. The modern mixers use other levels.
I personally recommend to find a nicely looking 208 or 216 also because they look great together, since they were designed for each-other. Guiding price of one is some 200 Euros on Ebay, but you can find sometimes good bargains, eg. I found my mint 106 in the US for some 80 USD , cheap enough to risk the otherwise hefty delivery costs.
I just checked on Ebay, and unfortunately there is no any good offering on M 208. I found a fairly looking M 216, for a good price, in the UK It will probably need some care..
https://www.ebay.com/itm/163927569340
Also check this out: https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/tascam-m-216/1241567412-172-994
For hunting I found a great page that collects offers from all main audio sites, you can set what you need and gives you regular updates: www.hifishark.com

Cheers,
laszlo

 

[Mark Richards]

...Tascam 38...I do not have any mixer yet nor any 2x Tascam DX-4D DBX, is there a non Tascam brand that might work ?

Hi, Olaf.
You can use any DBX Type I noise reduction unit with the 38 (the DBX Model 155 x2 being one example). With any third party DBX unit you would need to switch manually between record and playback. Most third party semi-pro gear of the period had the option to select -10 dBV (.316v) or +4 dBu (1.23v) output.

The advantage of TASCAM's DX-4D is that its spec'd to the 38 and so has automatic switching between record and playback on the 38 (and you still need 2, plus 2 proprietary control cables from the 38 to the DX4D, and from the first DX4D to the second).

...I was just wondering if any of these would be recommended as being of the same brand as the 38 itself :
Tascam M-30, Tascam M-80, Tascam M-08 8 or M-208

The TASCAM M-30 was marketed and spec'd as the companion mixer for the TASCAM 38 recorder. If you can find an M-30 in good condition, I think that would serve you well. One of its nice features is an input selector switch to choose among the mic, line, and tape re-mix inputs.

TASCAM put a lot of thought into the design of their mixers back in the day, and they were targeted to both the pro and semi-pro market. I found TASCAM mixers to be very versatile and high quality units.

In the studio, the M-30 board provides high quality audio; offers a number of possible configurations; and has excellent frequency response and good signal to noise ratio; very low distortion (less than .1% THD), and ample headroom (6 to 8 dB over 0 VU). As an 8x4x2x1 system, depending on the configuration, it can provide direct feeds for 8 inputs routed to your 8 channel recorder; 8 inputs routed to 4 channels; 8 inputs routed to 2 channels; or 8 inputs routed to 1 channel; while simultaneously providing stereo control room monitoring, a stereo musician cue system, and stereo mastering functions.

I used an M-30 In the demo/jingle/voice studio's control room of my commercial recording studio. I liked the M-30 so much I kept it when I sold the studio in the late 80s. Yes, I still have it and I still use it occasionally with my DP-24 Digital Porta-Studio home setup.

Maybe the following will help you to compare other mixers as you search.

Here's all the M-30 Specs (Note: 0 dBV =1.0 Volt rms; 0 dBu = .775 Volts rms)

The M-30 has three built-in and interactive mixer sections:
• Input Section - 8 channels: each has 3 position source selection (mic, line, tape remix); 3 position attentuation padding (0, 20, 40 dB); shelf EQ at12.5kHz +/- 15dB ; Parametric EQ (sweepable 60Hz to 1.5kHz +/- 15dB and 1kHz to 10kHz, each +/- 15dB); Channel Mute selector, 4 Output Assigns (output busses 1, 2, 3, 4); 8 Direct Out and 8 Cue Out on rear panel; Pan Control; and a straight line 40mm fader.

• Master Section (can serve as an 8x4, 8x2, and 8x1 mixer): Meter Selection (Buss, Monitor, Submix); Headphones (selectable: stereo/mono mix of outputs 1, 2, 3, 4; or stereo mix of the 8x2 submix section's stereo bus); Monitor/Mastering selection rotary level controls and pan controls for outputs 1, 2, 3, 4; Master fader. (Note: the Direct Outs permit direct connection of Mixer inputs 1~8 to channels 1~8 on the TASCAM 38. The 4 channel Main output has dual jacks per channel so main out 1~4 jacks can go to the 38's Channels 1~4, and the aux out jacks to the 38's Channels 5~8).

• Submix Section (serves as an 8x2 mixer for the 8 main channels, each selectable for either pre-fader, post-fader, or tape remix) with a rotary level control and pan control for each of the 8 channels, and a master rotary level control for the overall submix buss.

Input selector:
1-6 channel: MIC(Low Impedance) / REMIX / LINE.
7-8 channel: MIC/INSTRUMENT (High Impedance) / REMIX / LINE.

Mic input: Low impedance - channel 1-6:
Mic impedance = 200-600 ohms nominal mics.
Input impedance = 600 ohms balanced XLR type.
Nominal input level = -60dBV (1mV)
Maximum input level = +10dBV (3V) ATT to 40dB.

Mic Input High Impedance - channel 7-8 (DI guitar/Bass):
Mic impedance = 10k ohms nominal mics.
Input impedance = 100k ohms.
Nominal input level = -60dBV (1mV)
Maximum input level = +10dBV (3V) ATT to 40dB.

Line Input:
Input impedance = 20k ohms.
Nominal input level = -10dBV (0.3V)
Maximum input level = +14dBV (5V)

Tape Input:
Input Impedance = 59k ohms.
Nominal input level = -10dBV (0.3V)
Maximum input level = +14dBV (5V)

Line Output:
Minimum Load Impedance = 5k ohms
Nominal Load Impedance = 10k ohms
Nominal Output level = -10dBV (0.3V)
Maximum Output level = +14dBV (5V)

Monitor Output:
Minimum Load Impedance = 5k ohms
Nominal Load Impedance = 10k ohms
Nominal Output level = -2.2dBV (0.775V)
Maximum Output level = +14dBV (5V)

Submix Output:
Minimum Load Impedance = 5k ohms
Nominal Load Impedance = 10k ohms
Nominal Output level = -10dBV (0.3V)
Maximum Output level = +14dBV (5V)

Cue Output:
Minimum Load Impedance = 5k ohms
Nominal Load Impedance = 10k ohms
Nominal Output level = -10dBV (0.3V)

Direct Output:
Minimum Load Impedance = 5k ohms
Nominal Load Impedance = 10k ohms
Nominal Output level = -10dBV (0.3V)

Access Send Output (Input/Master Section):
Minimum Load Impedance = 5k ohms
Nominal Load Impedance = 10k ohms
Nominal Output level = -10dBV (0.3V)

Access Receive Input (Input/Master Section):
Input Impedance = 200k ohms
Nominal input level = -10dBV (0.3V)
Minumum Input level = -18dBV (0.3V)

Submix Input - Channel L/R
(& PRE,POST, Tape 1-8):
Input Impedance = 10k ohms
Nominal input level = -10dBV (0.3V)
Maximum input level = +14dBV (5V)

Buss Input:
Input Impedance = 10k ohms
Nominal input level = -10dBV (0.3V)
Maximum input level = +14dBV (5V)

Headphone Output:
Load Impedance = 8ohms
Maximum Output Power = Greater than 100mW

Phono Input:
Input impedance = 45k ohms
Nominal input level = -54dBV (2mV) at 1kHz.
Minimum Input level = -60dBV (1mV) at 1kHz.
Maximum Input level = -30dBV (31.6mV) at 1kHz.

Phono Output:
Minimum Load Impedance = 5k Ohms
Nominal Load Impedance = 10k ohms
Nominal Output Level = -10dBV (0.3V) at 1kHz.

Frequency Response:
Line output = 30 to 20.000Hz, +/-2dB
Monitor output = 30 to 20.000Hz, +/-2dB
Submix output = 30-20.000Hz, +/-2dB

Equalizer:
Type = peak Parametric and Shelving.
Level = +/-15dB
Frequency (low) = 60-1.500Hz
(middle) = 1,000 to 10,000Hz
(high) = 12,500Hz

Signal to noise ratio:
Equivalent Mic (low imp) 116 dB WTD, 20 to 20,000Hz
Mic (low imp):
1 Mic channel to 1 line out = 62 dB wtd.
8 Mic channels to 1 line out = 59 dB wtd.
1 Mic channel to Direct Out = 64 dB wtd.
1 Mic channel to Send Out = 65 dB wtd.

Line Out, Direct Out, & Send Out:
1 channel to 1 bus = 80 dB wtd
8 channel to 1 bus = 72 dB wtd

Phono Input to Phono Output:
better then 57dB = UNWTD(20-20,000Hz)

Crosstalk:
Better then 60dB (1k Hz)=Nominal input level.

Total harmonic distortion:
less then 0.1% at 1kHz = Nominal input level.

Fader attenuation:
60dB or more.

Overload Indicator level:
25dB above nominal input level.

Peak Indicator level:
10dB above nominal output level.

(All specs are from TASCAM's M-30 1982 marketing brochure.)
(Yes, I'm a packrat )

If you can find an M-30 that comes with its manual, you'll find that TASCAM owner manuals from that time period were an excellent primer on multi-track recording and provided excellent guidance techniques and suggestions for ways to configure their mixers to meet differing requirements; as well as fully explained instructions for performing maintenance on their units.

TEAC/TASCAM also produced two excellent free publications: The Multi-track Primer; and The White Paper - perhaps available somewhere on the 'net (or maybe even from TASCAM - doesn't hurt to ask).

 

[Olaf Ben]

thank you very much Laszo and Mark, I think I can work on that, and thanks for the deals (the devil is always in the details) so any details are welcome
olaf

 

[Laszlo]

Mark is right, the M30 came out the same year as the 38, I just forgot it... Here is a good line of time what was released and when. https://museumofmagneticsoundrecording.org/ManufacturersTeacTascam2.html

 

[Laszlo]

Eh, what a beauty!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=537&v=_242yn1WyZw

 

[Olaf Ben]

So, I finally got the mixer and tested it on my hifi amplification and the tuner and sound goes in and out as it should.

Now I want to hook up the Tascam 38 and just wanted your opinion.

The remote (23), DBX (26) and punch out/in (27) I will not use, as just testing with the mixer.

The 8 channel input (24), are they only for the DBX or input from, the tuner, phono, guitar, drums, piano or microphone to record on these channels ?

The 8 channels output (25) should go into the mixer ?

But the two jack connections on the right, next to the power outlet, what are they ?

I haven't found any indication in the manuals on what these two jacks are for ..., direct input to amplifier or are they "source" like from tuner / phono / microphones ?

Just wanted to pose the question as to not provoke a short circuit or something and damage the 38 and finally see if its "working" as it should according to the seller.

 

[Laszlo]

Hello Olaf,
I guess you are referring to the manual of the 38..BTW, what mixer did you get? So, there is one input option on the 34 and 38, if you use the DBX unit, you plug the encode/decode cables from the DX4D to the 38 input/output sockets. If you dont use the DBX, you use the input sockets for receiving the relevant signals from your mixer. Depending on the mixer setup, you can send and receive the signals in various ways. In case you want to record on eight channel, you plug the signal sources on the input of your mixer (high level inputs except for a mike) and you plug the input cables of the 38 to the PGM (or Group) out sockets of the mixer. The DBX socket on the tape machine is for control purpose only, there is no signal going through on it. I highly recommend to get an owner manual of the Tascam M30 or M208/216 because there is a good tutorial section explaing really in basic terms how and what to do with the mixer and the multivhannel tape recorder. If you send me an email address I can send you some copied pages.

 

[Olaf Ben]

Thanks Laszlo,

Yes I have the manuals of Tascam, 32 up to 58 just to read and get some hints that are not to clear in the Tascam 38 manual.

The Tascam M-30, M-208/216 and M-308/312/320 manuals for the mixers are interesting, until I make up my mind about which one to get. I will eventually get the DBX as well. The diagrams and hooking up of difference devices are more explanatory than some of the text.

I just bought a cheap old mixer, just to check if the 38 actually works or needs some attention, the owner used Soundcraft EPM and had good results with it.

I picked up the old one, the Soundcraft Spirit Folio Rac Pac 14 Channel Mixer as its line in are are for use 10 Ω. Going to use it anyway with my vinyl, "normal" tape recorders and other sound devices for experimental music.

 

[Laszlo]

I definitely recommend to buy two Dx4D-s, they are still on the market and usually at quite affordable price. The M216 is still available on eBay as just I saw it. 100 Pounds..