Sound input to tracks even with trim turned down

[Saxyfella]

Hi. I'm new to the forum and cannot find an answer to my problem so trying here before sending my DP-32SD in for repair.

I have a problem that doesn't 'appear' to be detrimental to recording quality and would be grateful if any members can try the following on their DP32 and confim that I have a fault.

1 - Attach a condensor mic to any input and assign that input to any channel. A dynamic mic has the same effect but of course the level is lower so harder to demonstrate.
2 - Keep trim control at zero (Fully CCW)
3 - Turn on phantom power
4 - Select record on the channel
5 - Speak into the mic and observe the channel meter. If the trim is set to zero I don't beleive there should be anything registering on the channel. No level is seen on the stereo track.
6 - Turn up the fader for the track and yhe level appears on the stereo track and in the headphones / monitor.

So that is the problem, that a fixed level of input is bypassing the trim controls. Trim still works and I can set the level appropriately to just under peaking. With trim set to zero, the send effects are still applied so it is as though the trim controls don't go down to zero but only about 40%.

I have opened a case with Tascam but they weren't very helpful.

I have tried factory reset from the Preferences menu and have upgraded to software version 1.06 0018.

I'd be grateful if anybody could try this on their system and confirm I have a faulty unit.
Thanks in advance. The attached picture demostrates the above.

 

[Saxyfella]

Update - I referred to a picture but the forum won't allow me to upload an image.
Pressing upload a file resuklts in the following message.
The following error occurred:
You do not have permission to view this page or perform this action.

So basically the picture shows :
1 - All trim controls fully CCW
2- Channels 1-8 assigned to input B
3 - Rec set for channels 1-8
4 - Level faders up on channels 1,2,5,6 and down on 3,4,7,8
5 - Input level showing on LCD screen for each of the 8 channels at -24dB (based on me talking at moderate level into microphone.

 

[Phil Tipping]

Welcome to the forum. The trim controls do not go down to zero - this is intentional. It varies to allow an input to range from high line-level to low mic-level - the wording on the panel shows this. The 1 o'clock position is the unity gain level when you are using the 1/4" jack sockets (the XLR sockets are more sensitive). There's lots of useful info in the sticky posts at the top of this forum.
Update - it's very rare for a machine to be faulty - it's usually a case of operator error so please watch the video tutorials and/or read the info above.... or just ask here

 

[Saxyfella]

Hi Phil. Thanks for your quick reply. I didn't think it was a fault although the Tascam support desk seems to think it is. So, excuse my lack of knowledge on this specific aspect, you are saying that the trim doesn't work like input gain on a mixer but more of a level adjuster to cater for the different levels associated with different input types? This would certainly help understand the labelling LINE (left) and MIC (right) and answer my question "why is there no mic/line switch for each input". Cogs are now whirring and I feel another layer of knowledge has been added to my reasonably competant abilities. It's not so much operator error but lack of operator understanding and something that RTFM would not have resolved in this case.

 

[Phil Tipping]

No worries - it's a complex machine with some non-intuitive functions... and the manual doesn't help, so we've all torn our hair out at various points
Yes, the trim is a level adjuster - it attenuates and amplifies with the unity position at 1 o'oclock. There's a brief discussion about it at approx 7m50s in tutorial 3A.
Anyway, hope you can progress with the machine now you know it's ok. Good luck, and have fun!

 

[Saxyfella]

I'll just think of it as variable pad and it makes complete sense. It's just a Hi/Lo impedance setting at each end but with a fine adjustment to account for different signal levels from different mics or line devices so you can a better SNR. Got it. I've made some fine recordings with this baby so another level of understanding helps. I only noticed it when I added an external pre-amp for a violin pickup. The only thing that lets this box down for me is the inability to save mixer settings (EQ, pan, effets) etc with the song so I have to note them down on a track sheet. Thanks again for your response. Good to know where to get support!

 

[Mark Richards]

To expand a bit for the benefit of others who may be reading this thread:
(from Post #67 in the Production Tips Sticky)

The XLR and TRS jacks are on different circuits.
The impedance is hard wired into each circuit:
XLR connector is LowZ
TRS phone jack is HiZ.

The Trim knob behaves differently depending on which circuit is being used.

For the XLR LowZ circuit, the Trim Knob acts like a continuously variable attenuation pad. It attenuates an incoming hot mic signal from full strength (at full clockwise) to about -60 dB or more (at full counterclockwise) so that the incoming mic signal won't overload the DP-24/32/SD circuit and cause distortion.

As soon as the Trim Knob is moved off full clockwise, there's an observable drop in the incoming strength of the mic signal. Significant changes in the Trim Knob position make significant changes in the sensitivity of the LowZ circuit, and thus the strength of the incoming mic signal.

Example:
A 500 Hz -33 dBv analog sine wave test signal fed into the XLR circuit reads -12 dBFS with the Trim Knob full clockwise.
At the 12 o'clock position, the test signal level drops to about -40 dBFS.
At the 11 o'clock position, the test signal level drops to about -48 dBFS.
At the full counter clockwise position the test signal level is below -60 dBFS.

The Trim Knob for the TRS HiZ circuit behaves as Phil described above. Unity gain is at the 1 o'clock position. With line level sources, it's always best to keep the Trim Knob full left. This provides the most headroom when bringing in a line level source. On the HiZ circuit, the Trim Knob enables a line level input signal to be raised to a usable level if the line level source's volume output is maxed out and the incoming signal is still weak.

 

[Mark Richards]

The only thing that lets this box down for me is the inability to save mixer settings (EQ, pan, effets) etc with the song so I have to note them down on a track sheet.

The only setting not saved with the song is the track fader level. In fact, if you create a new song based on the current song (Menu/Song/Create) all the current song's settings (except the fader levels) will carry over to the new song.

You really should go through Phil's Video Tutorials from first to last. It will save you much frustration down the road and open up many creative ways to use the DP-24/32/SD. The videos are free, but a donation to Phil for his hard work is always appreciated.

Ditto for reading through the stickies, many of which play to the strengths of those more experienced with music production.

 

[-mjk-]

@Saxyfella welcome to the Tascam Forums. Your machine is functioning properly, and this is the place to find out how to get the most out of it.