Stereo Out

[JohnnyStubble]

I have made my song and have extensive work with cd burning and etc...I am skipping the computer aspect with DAW...I am thinking of burning the mastered song from the stereo output in real time to a portable CD burner. Just making sure this can be done before I buy a burner. I believe that Phil said that this is an option. Thanks for any input

 

[-mjk-]

@JohnnyStubble that's not how it's done. You take the mixdown file and use software to author a CD. Is there any particular reason to avoid the computer for this task, which is perfectly suited for burning CDs?

If you want to record audio on a CD, you'd need a CD recorder not a burner. A CD burner has no audio connections like a CD player. I honestly don't even know if there are CD recorders. I own a DVD recorder but that's not what you want.

Use your computer to author (not burn) a CD with its own optical drive. If you burn and don't author, all you're doing is making a data disc that won't play on a CD player. You might as well just share the mixdown file with whomever.

The other reason why you don't want to do this, is because (if you've listened to Phil and Mark) you already have a digital mixdown on the machine. If you use the analog outputs to record a mixdown recording, there should be a very good reason for doing that. You'll be going from the digital domain to analog and back to digital, and introducing noise and distortion.

Phil definitely did not say that was an option.

 

[Matt B]

There are CD recorders, though getting rare. Amazon has them.

Other than that, what mjk says...

 

[JohnnyStubble]

I had meant CD recorder not burner...my apologies. I used the tascam dp24sd to completely refine my song.. My song is done and mastered. No more tweaking.I am trying to find a way to get the master file on my iTunes, SoundCloud, YouTube, and then a cdr or stream in my car as well.

 

[Phil Tipping]

I think there's some confusion here. You can use a free-standing CD recorder - if I used the wrong term (burner vs recorder) I apologise... but the point is you can get such machines - search for 'standalone cd recorder' - I used to have one by Marantz, and they accept audio inputs to make a conventional 'audio' CD which can be played in Hi-Fi CD players.

So it's perfectly acceptable to feed the stereo output from the dp24/32 to one of these machines, either during or after mixdown/mastering. Yes the signal will be converted from digital to analogue on the way out of the DP machine, but this isn't the end of the world. I use an analogue mixer when bouncing tracks to & from the digital domain and you'd need to have pretty sharp ears (and equipment) to hear the degradation... and we didn't complain that much when analogue tapes were used so I wouldn't worry too much My point in the videos with the '19-bounce test challenge' was really to show how this would have been impossible with the old-school cassette portastudios. Doing a one-off conversion when making a CD is not an issue in this context.

However, there are more important disadvantages (imho) which swing the argument in favour of using a computer to burn a CD...

• Recorders are very expensive; as mj said, if you've already got a computer, why buy another bit of gear?
• Recorders burn in real-time, whereas computers can do it faster.
• You only get one shot at recording so if you get it wrong, the CD is wasted, e.g. if the playback and/or recording levels are wrong, or you don't synchronise the start of playback with the start of recording, etc.
• Difficult to make multiple copies; you'd have to manually press buttons as above so each CD would be slightly different, whereas a computer could make perfect replicas.
• Limited ability to create or move track markers around.
• Limited ability to create CD-Text.

I would get that stereo master file copied from the sd-card to your computer, check it plays ok using a standard media player program, then tackle the issues about what you want to do with the file. If you want to make a CD, use a program to make an Audio CD (not a Data CD) - this is what mj meant by authoring. If you want to email it, use a file-sharing/transfer site. If you want to upload it to a music service site, see if it accepts the wave file as-is, if not, you may need to convert it to mp3, in which case a tool like Audacity would help - the exact process depends on the tool but it would something like: import the master wave file, then export it in the reqd. format.

 

[-mjk-]

There are CD recorders, though getting rare. Amazon has them.

Other than that, what mjk says...

In all my years behind the mixing desk, I've never seen one! In later years we moved to DAT but now those are going away. Thanks Matt, because I learned my new thing for today!

Well, I'll be: Tascam makes one and it also has digital inputs.

 

[Matt B]

I am aware of the CD recorders only because I shopped for one last year. I work with a music festival that uses them to record the performers and give the CDs to them after the set.

When I did my shopping, there were only two available on Amazon - I was surprised to see more when I searched yesterday.

BTW, we considered component USB recorders to replace the aging units, but the dependability was not there - many complaints about failures.

Me? I use USB to transfer my completed song to my laptop, and then upload to the destination of my choice - Soundcloud, Bandcamp, Facebook, CD Baby, etc. I have CD Baby manufacture CDs for me, but I have not CREATED a CD at home for a couple of years. Never have a call for it.

 

[David Porter]

I have 2 stand alone rack-mount CDR/CDRW burners - a Tascam and a Sony. When working with Roland's VS840 and VS880EX multitrack recorders - they do not produce .wav's - but specialized proprietary files (and not even a final/master mix file at all). So playing my mix out of those and using only fiber-optic digital transfer means - often through a finalizer/mastering processor and into CD burner - used to be standard operating procedure. They're pretty much boat anchors at this point. But they still look handsome in the rack.

That procedure worked great. But as Phil points out above - no doubt a clunkier way of doing things as compared to better options.

@Johnny Stubble: Assuming you know how to access the Tascam's "MUSIC" folder (if not - say so) - simply copy and paste your "songname.WAV" file from the top of the MUSIC folder to a folder of your choosing on your computer.

At this point you can upload that file to Soundcloud or other similar service - and then share or embed that anywhere you want. It's easy and free.

If there is something in this process that is not clear... speak up and we'll get ya squared away.

 

[JohnnyStubble]

Thank you so much for all the experience and information. I really appreciate the help.

 

[JohnnyStubble]

I may be pulling the wrong wav file. When I go into the music file, I am getting the 30+ z files and etc. Which file would be the master file? So I am saying in response to David, I am having difficulties there. Also, when I tried to download to Soundcloud, it took all the z files. When I tried the DAW, it was like starting over because it was individual files all unmixed. Sorry about my tech-understanding- impairment.

 

[David Porter]

No reason to apologize, sir. We all had to make our way through this at some point.

All of this assumes that you have created a "mixdown" or "master" file by *recording* your mix in either MIXDOWN or MASTER mode (or both). Once you complete this process - after accessing the Tascam's MUSIC folder and opening your "songname" folder - you will find several files at or very near the top of the "songname" folder. You do not want any of the files that have "_z" at the end - or any that start with "ZZ". There should be one single file that is simply your "songname". If you right click on this file and select properties - it should show you that it is a ".WAV" file. This is your master song file. You want this one and ONLY this one. Right click on it - copy - and then paste it to whatever location you want.

You can now burn it to a CD (assuming your computer has that hardware) - or share it using Soundcloud, etc. If you want to share that file with someone privately - you can either burn them a CD or upload the file to something like Google Drive or Dropbox - and they can pull it down from there.

I'm not the best at explaining stuff - so if there is some point above that you're still stuck at - please come back and say so.

 

[-mjk-]

@David Porter your CD units are burners, not recorders?

One reason to not go CD these days is downgrading the resolution to 16b/44.1k. I've been considering releasing my new stuff on DVD-A, which sounds like a good platform.

@JohnnyStubble I would copy that .wav file to my phone and just Bluetooth it to the car.

 

[JohnnyStubble]

thanks

 

[David Porter]

"@David Porter your CD units are burners, not recorders?"

You know - I admit.... I never made a distinction before. But I guess there is one. In the form of the rate and type and of data transfer I suppose? The recorder just converts writes the information in real time to the disc - and the burner (like in my laptop) just translates the digital info directly onto the disc - and can do that faster?

Assuming that's about right - fair enough - going forward I will think of my rack mount hardware as "recorders" - as opposed to burners. Thanks!

On a side note - while they are definitely going away... I still really like CD's.

And on another note... I have read - although I am not very knowledgeable about this subject - that while 96K audio definition is available - just about any means of playing audio back that most folks use and/or have access to... these playback options pretty much all narrow that high definition back down to a fairly high degree. I need to learn more about this.

 

[Mark Richards]

...playback options all narrow that high definition back down to a fairly high degree

Therein lies the challenge...do I mix and master for the audiophile, or for the masses? Or somewhere in between?

My philosophy has always been to make the artist's recordings as close as possible to audiophile quality. Listeners who strive to reach that level of quality will benefit, and those listeners who couldn't care less, well, their loss. I've spent a lot of time listening to and analyzing the mixing and mastering work Bob Katz has done for Chesky Records, as well as the binaural recordings for which David Chesky is rightly famous.

If you read reviews of high quality headphones, it's not uncommon to see comments like..."wow, I'm hearing things in the music I never knew were there...". To a much lesser degree, you will see an occasional comment like ..."the $15 headphones I bought at Walmart sound just as good as this Sennheiser 650. Sending it back."

M2CW

 

[-mjk-]

@Mark Richards we are really getting down to the nuts and bolts of music production. For my 1997 for song release, I had my tunes mastered at Sony Music Labs in New York City, with the famous mastering engineer, Vlado Meller, himself at the desk (please don't ask how much that cost!). The reference monitors that he used cost $100,000 each. While I wasn't physically present at the mastering sessions, my business partner was, and he said that the detail he could hear in the mastering lab was utterly astonishing. I agree that you should make it as high resolution as possible. The good thing is though, if I do get a high-quality MP3 or WAV file, both my PC and my phone will play them in the original resolution. All the supposedly HD CD schemes have failed over time. This is why I'm actively researching DVD – A. Unfortunately, all the songs on my website including those mastered at Sony Labs, are 16-bit digital dubs. I hear kind of a midrange smear that I did not hear on the 2 mix. It's interesting to note that Vlado asked us to submit future songs not on DAT, but on 1/2" analog tape at 30 IPS with no noise reduction.

 

[JohnnyStubble]

I am glad so many questions and approaches are getting discussed. I will try the single song name file, USB to my main computer,and see where I get.

 

[Arjan P]

One reason to not go CD these days is downgrading the resolution to 16b/44.1k. I've been considering releasing my new stuff on DVD-A, which sounds like a good platform.

I would say DVD-A is even more dead than CD these days. Even mastering software like Wavelab has no development in this area anymore (it did 10 years ago).

So the question is, who is it you want to reach, and on what platform? Tidal has the possibility of streaming HD Audio (96k-24b) but it's a niche market and not many people have the equipment to listen to this format anyway. To me 44k1-16b as a final product is still a very good middle ground, and most final users won't hear the detail it can provide anyway, on their smartphones and $15 ear buds..

 

[-mjk-]

@Arjan P thanks very much man. Your insight as always, is dead on. I have no business worrying about what is actually the record company's responsibly. I like how my Def Leppard CD sounds and it's 16b/44.1k of course.

 

[JohnnyStubble]

Tonight, I used my main computer instead of my crappy laptop.. I usb the tascam dp24sd to the computer transferred the files. Dragged and dropped the one master file with the one display name and dropped into SoundCloud and iTunes. Thanks s million. Onward to the next song. Right as Rain!