Tascam no longer makes reliable equipment?

I disagree. SSD is the next generation standard for data storage. Midas, Presonus boards are now offering standalone tracking to SD cards reliably and Tascam led the way. This is not flash in the pan technology. With all due respect you're starting to sound like a disgruntled ex-Tascam employee.
 
A lot of problems found with SD based devices are caused by damaged or incompatible cards. Also speed is a crucial factor. Most high speed cards are intended to be used with streaming devices like video cameras and are not always the best solution for random access devices like recorders in edit mode. For a device manufacturer like Tascam and Zoom it is almost impossible to maintain a reliable list of suitable cards. Card manufacturers change specs of their products without notice while maintaining the same product code. On top of that SD cards, as with all flash memory, wear out during usage. The memory cells have a limited life span (approx. 5000 cycles for consumer cards). On-card electronics provide wear-leveling, distributing the write actions across the available cells. If a cell is found defective the memory block containing the cell is flagged and mapped out for a spare block. This gives increased access times, causing a number of possible problems like dropouts and file errors. The solution is to replace the card timely and using larger capacity cards. This way it will take much longer for the card to wear out. This is a "simple" explanation of how these devices work. If someone is interested I can provide the long explanation :|

In the mean time incidental bad devices slipping through quality test procedures are possible.

It might be that DP24's are less prone to card speed problems than DP32's due to the number of tracks. Zoom R16 and R24 seem to have more card related problems than the R8.

Build in China doesn't automatically mean crap; iPhones for instance are build in China.
 
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I have a DP-008 and have had it lock up on me when I've been doing lots of takes/punching in. I decided to "delete unused data", which seems to have freed up some memory. It's a bit of a pain, but seems to be working. Also, just after nailing a "perfect take :)", make sure to save!
 
Perusing the net I have found that using standard SDHC cards work the best.Problem free so far. I stay away from the U1 and U3 cards as I have tried them and they do not work well or do not work at all. I use class 10 but I have seen evidence on some sites that even the class 4s will work.
If you google " best sd cards for audio" you will be directed to a lot of perplexing information but the bottom line seems to be to stay away from the U3s especially as they are improved for video and photog but not well suited to audio.
 
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I have been using SD cards in digital cameras and mp3 players for well over a decade now; the format does not look to be going anywhere, with newer SD cards with higher capacities coming out all of the time. Getting a 32GB card compatible with the DP series may become tricky in a couple of decades, but right now brand new high-speed cards are being made with 32gb capacity and it’s still fairly easy to get new 2GB cards (the maximum capacity for first generation SD cards) online at Amazon.

In terms of what card to use, my Google search for “Best SD cards for Audio” has, as its first hit, a shopping link to the 32GB San Disk Extreme Pro card (Class 10, U3) which is essentially the same make and model which has been in my DP32 recording songs for the last four months; I have not had a single problem with it. I recorded an entire album and filled up a 32gb San Disk U1 45mb/second card without any problems once I patched the DP-32SD firmware to fix the pop and click issue. I did not find any reports of people having issues because they used a U3 or U1 card instead of a more basic “class 10” card; and and least one other report that the San Disk Extreme Pro U3 95 mb/s 32gig works really nicely: http://www.tascamforums.com/threads/dp-24-and-dp-24sd-anyone-have-any-experience-using-this.2609/

One thing to keep in mind is that it’s a good idea to do a slow full format of a SD card before using it in the DP32SD; this allows the Tascam unit to format it in a way that minimizes problems, and check the entire card for any read or write errors before they ruin a take.
 
Thanks for your reply, Sam. It is good to know a number of newer cards will work as I just bought my Tascam recently. As of now I have enough capacity to keep me busy for quite some time - all SDHC class 10. They all work smooth as silk. I had to return two U3 cards because even after a full format they would not work. Probably just bought incompatible cards.
Anyway, I will add your recommended cards to my list. Anything that works.
 
Thanks for the clarification. Do you know which make and model of U3 cards were having problems in your Tascam?
 
The cards were PNY 32g Turbo UHS3 PSDU32GU390G. Full formatted the cards. Both gave me an "invalid card" error. I'm keeping a running list of cards that work from internet sites and my own use. I will probably steer clear of PNY although I'm sure they are a good card for other uses. It could very well have been just that particular card as one can see from Tascam's site that not all cards of the same model will work even if the only difference is gigabyte size.
 
+amazonwalrus - well if you scroll back through this thread, Jeff had problems with this one... yet I think Sam had no issues. On the face of it, it seems well up to spec - mine was very similar but was lower spec (90MB/s without the V30 tag) - they were about GBP 18 each 2 years ago from Amazon UK (they had an even better deal for 2 so I got an extra one as a spare). Just make sure your firmware is up-to-date.
 
Cool, so I'm guessing it will be trial and error. Thanks man
 
Hi Phil,
I have come from the background that Teac and Tascam have made some great products over the years. Yes, I complain about wave solder methods and usually correct solder joints on many decks I work on- I call it reliability soldering as it is to aerospace grade. Many of the machines I have worked on only come back due to wear. This SD card mixer product belongs to the card charger Technicians that otherwise could not fix a component level device. They can switch out boards until they work but I really don't have to deal with that as I do not work on that stuff.
I say if a person has a problem that is wide spread with a companies product- complain to high hell as they don't care unless you are a torn in their side. Once they have to answer FTC complaints or class action law suits then they start to have to make products like they did in the past not the junk of today. I think they have these made in China or off shore locations with very little quality control. Tascam is losing ground with customers if they keep on making stuff that fails and even for cheap and dumb reasons. I don't know how many Tascam 122 Mk II decks I have repaired motors in that used a garbage SMD type part that leaks. If I was in charge they would have never been put on those motors. My through hole caps never have any problems.
I have repaired at least 60 motor by now.
It is not only Teac going down but a lot of companies that used to make good equipment. They are just following the crowd. I say if something breaks send it back- if the manufacture finds out there is no profit in making junk they will stop. The big problem is that most people put them in a drawer and forget about them and then the company basically steak their money.
 
I was drawn to this thread due to various errors I received from my Tascam DP-32SD. After going through a lot of headaches with the SD card sent from the factory with the unit, I put in a fresh SD card and formatted it. So far no real problems.

EXCEPT that I have gotten some strange error messages. A few times it has said it was unable to save or write to a file (although I wasn't trying to save anything myself at the time -- so something internal I guess).

Recently I received the message: "Max File Size Error." The really odd thing about that is that I had just ERASED three tracks after bouncing them to a stereo track. So in effect, I was reducing the number of tracks, and would think the file size was being reduced, not expanded.

In any case, in both instances nothing was harmed and I was able to complete the recordings and mixdown/mastering with no problem. They were just temporary error messages that caused me panic without having any noticeable consequences.

Strange.
 
Stephen, 'erase track' is one of the Track Edit functions, and all of these can be undone. This is a blessing if you've made a mistake, but also a curse as the files are left on the card until the machine decides it's ready to delete them - depending on the no. of Undo levels you've chosen - or (I think) until you use the Delete Unused function in the Song menu. Your best bet is to keep an eye on the free space as shown in Menu, Information - you'll also get a feel for how much space your recordings need.

Skywave, a good point about complaining, and this is where an understanding vendor is worth hanging on to, even if they're not the cheapest. I had a Moog Sub-37 faulty on arrival... twice! Wonky/misaligned display on one, and stuck push buttons on another, and these are meant to be 'hand-crafted'. The vendor arranged collection and a replacement, but you may have a point about quality control. I suppose you only see the faulty machines (by definition!) so the nos. need comparing to the 'good' machines for a true picture. I've had various makes of gear going back decades and in the main have had no major problems. On the other hand, I'm ok with basic maintenance such as re-seating boards/connectors, so maybe there have been more 'faults' than I remember. I think most mechanical devices need some sort of maintenance to keep them ticking over, so this is where people like yourself are invaluable. I sold off anything tape-based (cassette, DAT & ADAT) some years ago once I started using hard-disc recorders (and more recently sd-cards), but they were still working fine. Have kept the 202 MkIII for nostalgia and for the odd request to transfer cassette to CD/MP3 etc. I've had some 2nd-hand machines which have seen a very different kind of life - from bent/worn-out controls to coffee stains or even mould inside etc. and this isn't just from gigging - I think some people are naturally heavy-handed or just don't know the correct procedures for using the gear, e.g. there are still people who literally 'pull the plug' on these sd-card based machines and complain because the card becomes unreadable.
 
Hi Phil,

Thanks again for responding! I was indeed aware of both the "undo" and the "Track Erase" features, but I was a bit concerned about using them, in case I made a mistake -- I have certainly done that many times while trying to learn this machine. (it is definitely NOT "user friendly" and the manual truly sucks)

I have tried the "undo" functions many times but it never seems to undo what Ijust did. I may just not be using it right. But in this case, I wasn't ready to erase the tracks right after the bounce until I was sure that the balance, panning and such were exactly what I wanted in context with the rest of the recording. So I may have done some other tweakings to other tracks before I was ready to delete the bounced tracks. And, unless I wrote down each change I made and the order made in (I am not quite THAT anal-retentive) I can't just look at the uninformative "History" list and figure what needed to be undone.

And of course, as I have used a number of recorders in the past that had no "undo" function, I am an old dog that is slow to take on new tricks.

But I still don't see why I would get the Max Size error, as it literally had no effect on anything. I continued recording as usual without having to do anything at all. In fact, I added a large number of tracks (each one over 4 minutes long) AFTER I received that error message, and never saw the message again.

> keep an eye on the free space as shown in Menu

Are you referring to the "REMAIN" time at the top right corner? If so that brings us into an entirely new problem. When I first got the machine, I thought that was what the REMAIN time represented. But on the first card I received, with only one or two "demo" songs on it, it said I only had a few minutes left on the card. I put a few songs on it with total average length being over 4 minutes each and with many (MANY) tracks. The value of the REMAIN bounced up and down some but ultimately went back to a smaller number without ever running out of space. And, maybe even more importantly, the most common value was/is the unique number "04:08."

After I put in the new 32G SD card, I did see the REMAIN jump up to over 100:00:00, and that would seem to contradict what I just experienced with the other card (and confirm your statements). But it quickly dropped to around 50:00 after only a small part of a song was recorded. After finishing that and working on a couple other songs, it went into the bouncing up-and-down thing but ultimately ended up telling me (right now) that the REMAIN is "04:08." It has stayed at that value for a very long time while adding a humongous amount of tracks to a relatively long song.

For awhile I thought the REMAIN referred to the total length of time used for the current song, since most of my songs are around 4 minutes long. However, they are never exactly 4:08, and usually are between 4.5 and 5 minutes. And of course, if this were true, the title "REMAIN" would not make any sense.

Obviously, I still have a great deal of learning curve, even if it weren't for the puzzling error message and functions that don't seem to work the way one would expect them to.

Thanks,
Stephen
 
Hi again Phil.

Sorry, I have been a bit fixated on what the heck "REMAIN" on the home menu meant. I assumed that would be related to the REMAIN SIZE in the Info screen, but that is in GB not time. So I currently have a full 24.6 G left.

But that also leaves me still wondering what the heck the "REMAIN" time on the main screen means. That clearly couldn't be an estimate of the time left on the card based on the REMAIN SIZE.

Tx
Stephen
 
Stephen, no I was referring to the time/space remaining as shown in Menu, Information. The time shown at the top of the home screen can be confusing at first. When you haven't set anything up for recording, the machine doesn't know how many tracks you're going to use, so it simply shows the time available for recording a single track based on the quality settings you've chosen for the current song. This value should equate to that shown in the Information screen.
The catch is that there's a 4GB limit (for large cards like yours) on each file on the card, and as it creates one file for each track, it cannot record tracks any longer than this. When you start arming tracks, the machine can then take the 4GB limit into account and show the true remaining time for that song (if you were to press record at that time). As you arm more tracks, the remain time will not change while there is still space for another 4GB chunk. Once the available space drops below 4GB, the remaining time will reduce. Stereo tracks need twice the space so you'll see a lower remain time.
 
Stephen Jones said:
(it is definitely NOT "user friendly" and the manual truly sucks)
Click to expand...

That sucks that you're having difficulties. I sincerely hope that you get things worked out. I have had a mostly trouble-free experience with the DP-32SD.

Respectfully, I'm no authority and only speak from personal experience. But I have some experience with earlier Tascam stand-alones, Cakewalk, Cubase, Reaper, Roland VS-840 and VS-880EX, and a few different sequencers... and there is no doubt that in my relative experience the DP-32SD is the most user friendly, accessible, and intuitive recording platform I have come across. And with Phil's video series.... any mystery or uncertainties are simply unnecessary.

Again, hope you get things squared away.:)
 
Phil: Thanks again for your great explanation! Another example of info that should be in the manual. (I haven't seen it anyway) I guess I already did reach at least a temporary file size limit as one of my songs finished at 3.7 GB. Its still funny that it hit the error without stopping recording and still allowed me to add more material. But I guess it maybe only hit it while making some internal temporary file that got dropped right away. (?)

Your statement about stereo files taking up more space is very useful. It makes sense, although I hadn't really thought of it that much. I have been lazy and just treating the Stereo files as Mono files. I.e. I have been recording single mono sources onto the Stereo tracks without actually setting them to "Mono." So I may be inadvertent wasting space I do not need to. Again, out of sheer laziness and trying to limit the number of settings I have to make. This gives me a bit of incentive to "do it right" instead of ignoring things I think don't matter.

I guess this demonstrates one positive thing about the old tape machines (including Cassette). The only limit was the size of the tape, and if you bought a large capacity reel/cassette you could put a lot of really long (4+ minutes) songs on a single tape. On the other hand, the more tracks and/or bounces you did, the sound eventually deteriorates significantly with analog, but not with digital. (or at least I would not think so)

jimi ray clapton: Either that is a real cool login name, or you have some parents who appreciated great guitarists! :)

In spite of my complaints and struggles, I am really loving this thing. I have completed seven 4+ minute songs with a huge amount of tracks and individual instrument sounds and vocals in a fairly short amount of time (~ a month). That's over 30 minutes so far. I hope to have a CD available for my family and friends by Christmas. (New Years at latest) So I am probably also moving too fast and although I have watched up to #6 of Phil's awesome videos, I really should be reviewing them more than I have. (as I have mentioned in a previous post somewhere, I have virtually no short-term memory due to medications I am on).

If this is user-friendly, I am glad I didn't try some of the other Tascam's you mention! LOL. My experience with Multi-trackers is with a 1990s Fostex 4-Track cassette, which had its limitations, but was VERY user friendly. You seem to have a large amount of experience with various recorders, so I am guessing that is one reason why you find this "user friendly." But I see a lot of postings on these forums that indicate, at least those not very experienced with multi-trackers aren't finding it so.

I haven't done any recording since the late 1990s, and never with anything so flexible and complex, so I do have an enormous learning curve I am trying to get over while still producing a lot of songs.

Thanks to you both for your encouragement and advice! Very helpful and much appreciated!

Best,
Stephen

 
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