Converting / Importing a Roland FP-30X piano mid file with Audio depot

[Neil Paisnel]

A brief intro since I am new here..

I am not a musician or a sound engineer of any type. I got roped in to help as I seem to be the most technical person around here that knows this musician that has all this kit.

He has a Roland FP-30x electronic piano and he has created a track that he wanted to save. I found the online manual and supplied him with a USB stick ..which he looked at blankly with a 'WTF is that " look.
He does not have a computer or mobile then and he is pretty non-tech.

I showed him how to save his track to the USB stick and this evening I have had a chance to examine it

Seems the Roland exports as a .mid file

I also see that the Audio Depot Menu item on the DP-24 imports files as wav.

So, easy enough ..Amadeus Pro to convert to wav file.
so that should import via Audio Depot.
But a my question is this..

The file is very 'flat', see screen grab. peak amplitude of -20db

Should I just do an overall amplify of say 19 db or a 'normalise' in Amadeus Pro ...before exporting as a wav? or just leave it as is?


Also I see the file is two channel , a stereo file, is there any point in this ..should I just bin one channel and import to a single track on to the DP-24?

 

[Saxomohawh]

You could really do both ways. Either normalise it in your computer first or it could be done later in the Tascam unit. Since it seems the person you are helping is not very technically minded it might be better to do it before you import it.

Since it is a stereo file you can import it as a stereo file. But if it does not contain any stereo information you might as well save it as a mono file. Does he/she know what he/she wants? You can do both ways.

For the future: It might be better and easier to record the piano/synth directly with the Tascam. I mean that is the whole point with it.

 

[Neil Paisnel]

pretty much confirms what i thought.

yes, it is easier if he just recorded straight to the Dp-24, but often he does not have it all rigged up and then ends up with a good take on the Roland he wants to keep.

Yes, as you say, the stereo is just two identical tracks. I confirmed that by inverting phase and combining.

Any idea if there is any practical difference between the ‘normalise’ or Amplify functios on audio software such as Amadeus Pro
To my untrained ear they seem to be the same

 

[Saxomohawh]

I don't know if the quality of the normalize function differs between Tascam and different PC softwares. Probably no practical difference, but I dont know.

 

[-mjk-]

@Neil Paisnel said:

yes, it is easier if he just recorded straight to the Dp-24, but often he does not have it all rigged up and then ends up with a good take on the Roland he wants to keep.

They are not mutually exclusive. Very many people record the performance on MIDI and then use it to drive a keyboard or other gear (or VST in a DAW) to produce audio. He should record the performance on the Roland and then record the audio on the DP. It's not that difficult to connect a keyboard to the DP.

Seems the Roland exports as a .mid file

I also see that the Audio Depot Menu item on the DP-24 imports files as wav.

So, easy enough ..Amadeus Pro to convert to wav file.

The above is really strange. MIDI files have no audio to convert. How are you getting audio out of the MIDI file? Some information is missing.

This workflow seems so counter-intuitive and odd because he's obviously listening to the piano while he's recording the MIDI. He can play back the MIDI and hear it on the piano too. So why not just record the audio off the piano in playback?

 

[Neil Paisnel]

You will have to teach me something here ...is a "dot mid" (.mid) file a MIDI file ?
The name would suggest it is but I do not know. I have uploaded the file that his Roland produces here:

http://paisnel.co.uk/hughmusic/SONG_001.MID

SONG_001.MID

It isa an audio file or at least appears to be, as players like VLC or QuickTime7 accept it, although now I do see that they do a conversion process before playing it. Maybe they have a built in MIDI to AUDIO convertor?




Here is the process.
Hit the Record button on the Roland
Play the track Hit the Stop button
Put USB stick in the Roland
Hold Function key and tap Play Button
all the lights flash and the saved track is transferred to the USB stick.

that is the exact file I linked to above


That .mid fil plays back as an AUDIO file on my Apple Mac. it opens in all the audio software i have as just another audio track.


Yes I agree it is not difficult to record straight to the TASCAM, but we are talking of a late 60's early 70 years old musician/ abstract artist/ painter here..he does not even have a mobile phone. He CAN do it he has done it ..but some times he is jsut playing the Roland and has something he wants to record..and hits just the record button the Roland while he is in his moment...

We are not going to change that..just have to work with what we have..


I had to "Google" (or VST in a DAW) I don't have any such kit more than basic audio editing apps on the Apple mac, such as Amadeus Pro.




Tell me what the .mid file I uploaded is...Is it a MIDi file ? or is .mid just another audio format?

 

[Neil Paisnel]

So why not just record the audio off the piano in playback?

Ideally , yes..but often he records and plays late at night ..and if his wife or the cleaner comes and unplugs the ROLAND during the day ...he says it looses the tracks he has recorded... and setting up the Tascam at 3 in the morning so he can then record ..after he has had a few glasses of wine is not going to happen.


He can Hit the Function and Play key on the Roland and it is saved..that he can do.



As I say he is not particularly tech savvy, and I am trying to help him out as best I can

 

[Saxomohawh]

I wonder why he bought the Tascam in the first place.

 

[Neil Paisnel]

He had an old Tascam 4 track tape deck and he used to record his stuff on that.
He just saw it as an upgrade without really understanding the complexity of it for his tech knowledge, from what I can gather.

 

[-mjk-]

.mid files are MIDI. The reason you hear audio is because the computer has mapped audio sounds when you play MIDI files. Windows Media Player can do that, for example. When you "convert" MIDI to audio, you are totally stuck with the audio that was selected by the mapping, most likely some GM (General MIDI) definition.

What your friend is doing is no different that programming a MIDI drum machine and playing it back. Why he isn't recording the audio from the piano is baffling. He's using the MIDI record function in the Roland keyboard to act as a sequencer to play back his performance perfectly. That function makes it very easy to record perfect audio right off the piano.

I did not look up that model piano, so if it doesn't have audio output jacks for recording, then the fish will have to be fried another way.

 

[Neil Paisnel]

I’ll answer in a long winded fashion, in the hope of explaining WHY, but this is just for completeness and that the answer I need has been fully answered.

Why (and when ) he is or is not recording all the time from the audio out (yes it does have audio out), I had mentioned previously.

I’ll try to explain again.

His ‘studio’ is his bedroom or living room, depending on various things, like who is in the house, which instrument or vocal mike he is working with, how much wine has been consumed, time of day or night etc.

There are many occasions when he is doing a bit of keyboard and he can’t find/ can’t remember HOW to connect or Record ( or FIND ! ) the TASCAM.

The other month he said to me he could not turn the keyboard off, as he had something recorded that he wanted to keep, and IF he turned it off he would lose it. Previously someone else had turned it off/there had been a powercut, and he had lost something…

So that got me thinking that there must be a way to Save, Export, then import to the TASCAM.

I found the manual, and saw it was possible to Export/Save to USB. I also knew of the TASCAM Audio Depot import function. It SEEMED logical to Export from one device and IMPORT to the other.

But now with the information that these .mid files are not audio files means that system of Export/Import will not work.


But that does not matter, because as long as it is saved to USB, I will just have to play it back via the keyboard and use audio out into the TASCAM as a standard real time recording.

Job done, all good

 

[-mjk-]

@Neil Paisnel I wasn't expecting an explanation, but it all makes sense now. Thanks.

 

[Neil Paisnel]

Nice to wrap things up.

Next job is now to see how the ‘Save/Playback’ function works on the keyboard in more detail. There is no display unit, but it does say you can save up to 100 tracks. Guess you keep track of them just with a pen/paper..