DM-4800 Cascade Mode

[SCK Records]

Hello Tascam Forum,

I am running two DM-4800 in cascade mode for a couple of years now. Everything runs fine except one small thing. After discovering the forum today, I would like to ask the experts here in the forum about this. The problem is as follows:

When running the two consoles in cascade mode, everything forks fine. When switching layers on one console, the other follows correctly. All is fine, except when switching to remote layer. Then both consoles switch to the remote mode (remote mode is shown in the display on both), but the faders synchronize to my DAW (Cubase) only on the console where I pressed the remote layer button. The other console does not sync the faders. The problem is the same on both consoles: Switch to remote is ok on both, but the other console (where I do not press the remote layer button) does not sync the faders to the DAW.

Otherwise, both consoles are correctly working in remote mode. Only the initial fader sync to the DAW fails on one console (where - as explained - I do not press the remote layer button).

I contacted Tascam many times about this - there is no reply.

Does anyone else has this problem and was a chance to fix this? Firmware is latest on both consoles.

Thanks for a hint + best regards


Manuel

 

[captdan]

I've never operated cascaded DMs. So - take this leap into the unknown for what it's worth:

I think you discovered a limitation with the system's USB architecture: it can only 'answer one phone at a time." Whichever machine sending a 'hello' first receives a singular response. The other machine - well - it's left hanging with a 'busy signal.'

This shouldn't be a problem, though; you can scroll though the DAW mixer banks and still maintain remote control with either DM.

CaptDan

 

[cmaffia]

I know nothing of cascading either so my 2 cents worth of thought is if USB could answer only "one phone at a time" wouldn't the nature of "cascade" and it's cable overcome that? Why wouldn't it send that information simultaneously to both machines? Sounds like a configuration parameter was missed?

If Tascam didn't get back to you you could email Lou Stonehill as he has 2 DM4800's cascaded in his studio.

http://www.loustonehill.com/lou_stonehill_home.html

 

[captdan]

I know nothing of cascading either so my 2 cents worth of thought is if USB could answer only "one phone at a time" wouldn't the nature of "cascade" and it's cable overcome that? Why wouldn't it send that information simultaneously to both machines? Sounds like a configuration parameter was missed?

Now that I think about it (something I should've done before) you're probably right. There's likely a pathway available in the DM's Midi menu to allow both desks to simultaneously communicate.

CaptDan

 

[Jarno]

you could email Lou Stonehill

+1

Lou has had his cascade setup running for years and he also uses Cubase as his DAW. And at the same time you could also ask him to join this forum. He was an invaluable member of The Old Forum.

 

[Layer-Status]

Hi

It could be a MIDI thing. Maybe you should check if both DM's send the ontroller data at the same MIDI port?

Best regards

 

[Muziekschuur]

Isn't there anything about cascading in the manual? Have you downloaded all the firmware update pdf's. Those are additions to the manual and discribe changes to the OS.

Are both the USB connectors connected to their own bus? Some motherboards have lotsa USB connections. But only one bus. Allso if you use a USB hub on top of that this will mean the USB connection can be rather full and that USB hub may drop messages. So I suggest you check if the USB connectors of your consoles are both connected to their own bus and nothing else is connected for a final test.

And are usb port 5,6 and 7 of both consoles differently named? Meaning they do not mask each other. Is one called something like 5 (2) or something...

 

[SCK Records]

thank you all for the replies.

it seems that i did not explain my problem correctly, so i try again:

i can use *both* consoles in remote mode. all is working perfectly:
faders, pots, eqs - i can all use them in remote layer. master and
slave are perfectly controlling my daw. so midi/usb/definitions in
cubase should not be the problem since everything is working
well on both consoles.

the problem is only when *entering* remote mode. then, the console
on which i press the remote button correctly syncs the faders into the
settings of the daw, the other one simply does not.

so after entering remote mode, the opposite consoles faders simply
stay in the same position as they where in the last layer. this phenomenon
has no direct relationship to one console, it happens vice versa -
always the opposite console does not sync in.

i will try to contact lou next week and also tell him about the new forum.

thanks again for your assistance + cheers!


manuel

 

[Muziekschuur]

This could be a "feature".

I'm not sure. But it would not bother me. You however would like 48 faders of controll to your Daw... I assume.

 

[SCK Records]

yeah, and i have these 48 faders for control. it's fun to control the whole daw with the consoles, but a little annoying when the opposite console does not get the right fader positions when entering remote mode...

the other thing that i really have to complain about is the tascam support. they do not care about any customers. i bought/paid the two consoles (with meterbridges and lots of i/o cards) - now they give a %&*+! on me. the next console will definitely not be tascam.

cheers!

 

[cmaffia]

the other thing that i really have to complain about is the tascam support. they do not care about any customers.

This hasn't been my experience with Tascam and I highly doubt they've been in business for decades because they "do not care about any customers". They have gone the extra mile for me on more than one occasion since 1982. In your original post you said you contacted them several times without a reply. Did you call or just email them? Maybe your email went to their spam filter? I would call them as I am sure they aren't intentionally ignoring you. Even with today's technology, the quickest way to get help anywhere is to pick up the phone IMO.

the next console will definitely not be tascam..

That's a shame...Good luck finding something else anywhere near in this price range, with this functionality and with this sound quality.

My only complaint about these units is the LCD screen. Although mine is still fine, I dread the day when I see lines and I need to either replace or get the 2seemy vga solution.

 

[Muziekschuur]

I understand. I hope though you will have fun visiting our forums.

The alternative would have been to buy two O2R96's and spending more then 20.000 on them...

 

[captdan]

Even with today's technology, the quickest way to get help anywhere is to pick up the phone IMO.

Agreed. I've had only one instance where I needed to call Tascam tech support - for help replacing the LCD screen window. I left a voice message which was returned within an hour. The tech was patient and helpful, walking me through the steps to safely replace the thin plastic sheet. (I know - it's not rocket science, but I'd only had the mixer for a short time and didn't want to break something in a blundering DIY maneuver.)

I would say a lesser company wouldn't have been as helpful - suggesting I 'send the mixer to an authorized repair facility' and pay the immense freight accordingly.
Kudos to Tascam; they're okay in my book.

CaptDan

 

[Arjan P]

I have to say that Tascam support is possibly not the same all over the world. Sounds like it's fine in the USA, but when I mention 'Tascam' at my local (big) shop, I see eyebrows frowning.. My personal experience with them (through this shop) - which had to do with an MP-VT1 - was okay though.

 

[captdan]

I have to say that Tascam support is possibly not the same all over the world. Sounds like it's fine in the USA, but when I mention 'Tascam' at my local (big) shop, I see eyebrows frowning.. My personal experience with them (through this shop) - which had to do with an MP-VT1 - was okay though.

I think this might apply to almost any company. Without naming names (hint: Musiekschuur's post refers to it), some other, very well respected ones feature spotty tech support in my experience. Depending on who you get on the phone, the assistance may be non existent, misleading, filled with make believe, or actually quite helpful. It's a crapshoot, and I doubt any manufacturer is immune.

That's because like us - they're only human. Mostly, anyway.

CaptDan

 

[SCK Records]

well, here in switzerland the support seems very uninterested. i can tell you all the story about what happened so far:

after my attempts to get support via mail/support form/internet, i decided to pass this question to my dealer. as mentioned before, i bought gear from tascam for a reasonable amount of money. my dealer then contacted tascam support as well as tascam distribution for a solution. i also wanted to know why nobody replies to me.

after weeks, tascam told my dealer that they definitely do not know how the support process works and that they have absolutely no idea where my emails went.

then, tascam told my dealer that there is only a very small number of customers with the cascade setup worldwide and that it would not be worth the effort to fix any cascade issues in the firmware at all. they even did not ask for any details about my problem. they simply wont to anything.

that was it. so i cannot say that tascam cares about customers. my hope was to find someone else here in the forum with the same issue for exchanging ideas.

anyway - thanks for all your replies.

cheers!

 

[Muziekschuur]

We cannot fix these things for you. But It is my experience (I do this forum thing now for allmost a decade) (hmmm.... look grey hair.... Is that because I'm getting old or because you all started nagging hard?)... that Tascamforums has become the place where these things get sorted.

Redbus visits here every once and a while (he's head development) and some major movie and audio engineers and musicians use these consoles in their private studios. Mostly to do stuff wich is easier on a digital console. Like pairing channels and doing some custom automatisation. So whenever there are bugfixes and improvements, stuff like this gets fixed.

But you allso gotta work with us. Because I asked some questions and you did not answer them... U're asking cutting edge... And the stuff you ask about is allso possible on one console....

 

[cmaffia]

i decided to pass this question to my dealer. as mentioned before, i bought gear from tascam for a reasonable amount of money. my dealer then contacted tascam support as well as tascam distribution for a solution

Did you try calling Tascam by phone yourself? Would it be possible for you to call the Tascam HQ in the US?

 

[cmaffia]

Was there any progress with your issue?

 

[RedBus]

I'll look into the cascade problem.

Where are you located. TASCAM customer support has locations in Europe and America, but you should always contact the customer support number appropriate to the country you are in. The call center in Los Angeles can't take calls from all over the world, they are for North America customers (who bought from North American dealers). Which support was giving you problems? We do care about our customers, but people who don't give us enough information to work on, or call the wrong location won't get the best support we could otherwise provide.
Reputable dealers also work on your behalf, you should keep your dealer in the loop as well. If it was a hardware problem, we'd need to work with them to arrange replacements or warranty repair, and things don't go smoothly if they happen behind the dealer's back.

Tom.