DM3200 and HD24 intergration

[earlink45]

I have a Motu 2408 with PCI424, Motu MTPAVUSB, Alesis HD24 with BRC, and spare PC that has a M-Audio Delta1010 (that I haven't been using since the purchase of the DM3200). I was already beginning to think the MOTU 424 card would serve more purpose in my Spare PC since I use the Motu 2408 as stand alone convert into the DM3200 from the HD24. Don't know if it's possible but I would like to sync the 2 PCs???

Yes its possible to sync 2 PCs but don't need to as this will not do what is explained below.

The PCI 424 has an ADAT Sync IN, the MTPAV has ADAT Sync Out, of course the HD24 has both. I beleive DAW can issue MMC commands to the MTPAV and the MTPAV will then send MTC to DAW and ADAT sync to the ADAT simultaneous. I beleive the HD24 can create a Sample-Accurate ADAT Sync when doing this.

I've been using the DM3200 to control Sonar and it is setup just as the Sonar setup guide explains. I have 2408 clock set to Internal and phase locked from the HD24 by word clock daisy chained thru the DM3200, which IF-FW is locked and this DAW is doing just fine.

I don't know if it is possible to have the HD24 to Master the Sonar setup expained above? As I've been trying to intergrate the HD24 to have the DM3200 to handle the transport control and have been unsuccessful. Is it possible for the DM3200 to handle transport controls of both the DAW and the HD24 simultaneously? Or control anything simultaneous for that matter? If not then I'm led to beleive I must sync 2 DAWs.

Yes the HD24 must be master in all cases when using MTC. Yet thought its explained in the DMs user manual that the DM can not control more that 1 machine at a time; I was able to make this happen but unfortunately it was worthless. In order to do so I had to use the MIDI I/O of the IF-FW

Is it possible to sync 2 DAWs (PCs)?

One PC which has delta 1010 (for audio inputs) could be ran by the HD24, MTPAV, 424 card, to run DAW #1. This would allow this computer to serve as a midi multiplexor yet the HD24 would be Master of the DAW even though the DAW is in charge of the transport controls.

And the 2nd PC is fed the HD24 audio via the 2408 into DM3200 and into DAW #2 via IF-FW as explained in the Sonar Setup.

Sure you can do this. I was going to try this becasue the the ASIO is already being used by the DAW #2 setup. But no this will not acheive what I'm after.

 

[earlink45]

I'm a member of the tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/HD24

A guy by the name of Dave from this forum wrote:

>I have slaved my FW 1880 to the HD24 with the transport of the 1880 controlling the HD24. It is MIDI connectted for sync and wordclocked with ADAT lightpipe. Now the FW-1880 is only an interface for Cubase on my laptop. Proper settings need to be made in the software to have proper sync, most importantly wordclock(48k) must be locked first. MTC should be on, and MMC should be on in the HD24.<

I'm still trying to figure out how to configure my equipment to do something like this so this can sync up with my computer thas has the DM3200/Sonar configuration.

The MTPAV is new to me and I am waiting a reply from Magic Dave at Motu. Hopefully he can help.

So I got the HD24 to master the DM3200 last night with only 1 computer but now I know the meaning of Sample Accurate Sync (sample address sync) as it was not. This is crucial for me, with everything I'm trying to do. In the end I want to sync HD24 and DAW to sync up with video. So I assume I need to have this ability before that can happen.

Last night with only 1 PC:
DM3200 was in transport control of Sonar slaved to HD24, 2408 was the converter stand alone. When I start the HD24 the DM3200 would start recording in Sonar. But when I would try to resample the audio from the HD24 was not in true sync with audio that was recorded the first time. It was off by milliseconds and when I would retry it would be off inconsistently such as milliseconds were variable from one attempt to the next.

Yea there was slop alright. The first 4-5 seconds could be an offset but that to seemed inconsistent. What I'm seeing after that is once I've already recorded the bulk of the tracks if I wanted to resample one track vocal for instance. It was off inconsistently for example the 1st time it sound like a slapback, the 2nd time like an echo, 3rd even more delay, but not in that order more random as I never new what would happen next. When I resampled I didn't overwrite the original vocal track I made new for each. I could see this could work for vocals if I were to realign and such but would find it a mess for percussions and such. Moreover, I also tried to start resampling at random points rather than just the beginning and same results remained.

 

[earlink45]

As I was reading through all the post here and at one time I thought I read someone here had acheived transport control of the HD24 thru MIDI. But I can't find the post or who it was. I don't believe he said how but he said he did.

Don't know how he did it but this only work when MIDI was connected to the IF-FW. However for me this would only work for a one-shot use in a session as resampling was inconsistent as explained earlier.

Moreover with MIDI connected to the DM3200 I/O these setting (pictures attached) helped me to achieve the HD24 to master and gain transport control over the DM3200 and Sonar (yet if I wanted I still could just use the DM3200 transport controls and it would run the DAW with no affect to the HD24 since I already had it setup that way). And what was most beneficial is that if I pressed Record and Play on the DM3200 when in standby, the DM and Sonar would wait to CHASE the HD24. I would then have to press PLAY on the HD24 for the DM/DAW to begin. Thus what was explained earlier about inconsistencies when resampling tightened up some when following the same procedures. Such as no more echo or delays, now all takes varied between phasing, flaming, and slap-back.

 

[earlink45]

I just remembered when I first got the HD24 (10 years ago). I had it setup as master of Cool Edit Pro via my Delta1010 interface. The HD24 controlled the transport and I would have to arm tracks and the record button but it worked. Could I get this to sync up with my new DM3200/Sonar setup? For whatever reason I keep thinking the HD24 must be master?

Yes this is possible; and no matter what the HD24 must be master when using MTC but it will not help as a solution. However since the DM3200 is using ASIO in DAW1 if someone wanted they could use a separate interface in DAW2 if they did this. Which leads me to my next alternative:

(Magic Dave)
>If you do want sample address accurate sync, you need the computer to sync to the HD24 via the ADAT sync protocol. As far as the second computer goes, there is no simple way to split the ADAT sync coming from the HD24 to two separate systems, so I doubt that you will be able to get two computers to sample address sync to the HD24.<

So I guess the best thing for me to do is relieve the DM3200 of its interface duties. Put 2 ADAT cards into the DM3200 for a total of ADAT 24 channels. Then I can feed the HD24s audio directly to the DM3200 for internal automation. That will then get sent to the 2408 via TDIF and into the 424 card for recording to DAW. Since the 424 card is now in use in computer and the DM3200 is no longer the interface I could sync up the HD24 as master via the ADAT sync protocol with a sample accurate DAW using the 424 card. And I hope this would allow accurate resampling from the HD24?

>Yes, that will give you sample address sync between the DAW and HD24.<

The only thing is that I don't believe the setup above could then be synced to video unless I use something like a timepiece MTP AV. This would involve a setup like page 40 and 45 in the MOTU PCI-424 Manual for Windows. Are Figures 5-20 & 5-25 in this manual able to function simultaneously? Note the connections made between the PC and the MTP AV in both figures???

>You don't need the sync functions of the MTP AV because you have those sync functions built into the HD24.
Yes the 424 card will sync directly to the HD24 for sample address accurate sync. You do not need the MTP AV for this function.
There is a synchronizer in the HD24. Also if your video deck locks to LTC, it has it's own internal synchronizer. Don't sync the audio recording system to video. Sync the video deck to the recording system.If the video capture deck can capture while locked to SMPTE, send LTC SMPTE from the HD24 to the video deck and you should be all set.<

 

[earlink45]

So Magic Dave at Motu replied that I don't need the MTP AV for HD24 to sync just use the PCI424 card. But yet its is necessary if I want to be able to MIDI Multiplex and direct MIDI routing. Here are some other things about the MTPAV some might consider:

>The factory default setup of the MTP AV routes all input and output ports to the computer. If you want to do any direct input to output routing (which would not be typical for a computer based recording system), you use the Clockworks software for that. Clockworks has replaced the MTP Console software.

The MTP AV has been discontinued for a few years now. When this device first came to market, there was no such thing as the HD24. 10 or more years ago, if someone wanted to synchronize a VCR, ADAT, and computer based recording system, the MTP AV provided those functions.

My recommendations are based on the information that you do provide. Based on what you have told me, I recommend that the HD24 is the sync master for the entire system. The MTP AV will be used for MIDI I/O for your external MIDI modules.
You haven't told me that you are using a VCR. You haven't told me that you have any original ADATs.<

 

[earlink45]

Magic Dave replies again:
>If you connect an ADAT sync cable from the output of the HD24 to the PCI 424 card then yes, the PCI 424 system gets set to ADAT sync.
The ADAT sync gives you sample address accuracy (with supported software). MTC will also work but is not sample address accurate.
Cubase, Nuendo, and Digital Performer will lock to ADAT sample address sync. Sonar and Protools will lock to MTC only.<

So for now it appears I need to use the 424 card, replace Sonar, get 2 Adat cards for the DM3200 and remove the IF-FW.

 

[earlink45]

Just keeping you all updated... There has been lots of help from Magic Dave at Motu. The emails are a mess to go through and I will post what's needed here once I get it all sorted out. Was up all night trying various configurations.

Its day been another day with Magic Dave and I am glad for all his help. I will go back to some of these post in order to make since of everything and minize the outcome of all the information of our emails. I hope the different colored text help distinguish that all post were edited. Sorry I don't mean to confuse those who would read this thread later. This was the easiest way for me to make since of all this

 

[earlink45]

I need a favor from someone here!!! As I don't have a compatible DAW software (this is not for Sonar and Protools users).

Anyone here have all of the following:
DM3200/4800 with 2 Adat cards (or just you the given Adat peripherals)
Alesis HD24 with Adat sync cable
Motu 2408 with PCI 424 card
TDIF cables
Cubase SX (not VST), Nuendo, Digital Performer, or Some other Sample-Accurate Sync DAW

You would need you to send the HD24 audio into the the DM3200/4800 direct via lightpipe, then send audio out of the Dm3200/4800 into the Motu 2408 via TDIF, and from the 2408 into the DAW via firewire to the 424 PCI card. You will also need to connect the ADAT sync out of the HD24 to the PCI 424 card and figure out how to establish wordclock thru-out-all. You would need to install the Motu PCI SMPTE Console. You would need to unplug the firewire to the IF-FW. Then you would have to configure the DAW accordingly (I don't have anything to offer there I would only be guessing).

What I want to know:
Is it truly Sample Accurate upon resampling? (Details: 1st record a batch of tracks from HD24 to DAW, then record 1 or few of same tracks from HD24 to new track/s in DAW). Is there any phase, flam, slap-back, echoing, or delay going on when resampling the same track/s?

Please

Let me know if I can be of any assistance and I will try my best.

Thanks in Advance

And if you can share any knowledge to this thread I am all ears.

Meanwhile all I can do is wait to order parts.