DP32 mixing question

[darcy]

I have a midi-to-sync box. I record 8 different tracks, drums, bass, and guitar...

For example this is what I did. I played my entire drum programs on track 1,2,3,4...

5,6 are different basslines

7,8 are guitar parts....

To make it clear, I used the midi to sync box, so track 5 (bass) plays the the pattern for the entire song. Track 6 (bass) plays a different pattern for the entire length of the song. This goes is also done the same way for tracks 1,2,3,4....

What's the easiest and most effect way now, to select certain regions from certain tracks? Ie.... Track 6... might play for 16 bars, then Track 5, for 24 bars, then back to track 6 for the remember of the song.

I know I can I ride the faders, but I will be adding more tracks, so I might not have enough fingers ... How should I go about mixing the parts together. I know there is silence in track edit... but is there another way? With silence there's just alot of marking in and out points, making sure the length is right on and such - curious how others tackle this?

Thanks

 

[-mjk-]

https://www.tascamforums.com/threads/share-dp-24-32-sd-production-tips.5747/

 

[darcy]

Can you cut and paste? I read through that, there are alot of tips, but I can't specifically find the answer to my question... Not really a fan of someone just showing a link that leads to a wall of text if you could be more specific, what post I'm that will explain my issue? or who posted... or even cut and paste...

Leaving a link, with no comment, is kinda of decieving... it's like your pointing out a mistake, or a question that bothers you... or I have done something wrong.

 

[-mjk-]

@darcy I'm going to overlook your accusation. I assumed that you would be able to discern what was written. I attempted to post a specific link to this:

An issue that I'm observing is that some users apparently think that once they Mixdown and Master, that's it, and they are stuck with that result whether or not it meets their expectations. One has to think in 3D. This is not a 2D forward-only process. You can run your work through the machine several times in different ways to accomplish what you need.

In the old analog tape days, sometimes, when reviewing different Mixdown takes, we'd find that we liked version A's Intro, B's Verse, D's Chorus, and C's Solo sections. I'd get out the razor blade and spend hours with long pieces of tape wound on other reels as I spooled off unwanted sections so I could splice in another spooled section. I'd have spools all over the control room, marked with grease pencil. Finally, I'd have a "Frankenstein" final mix (which is exactly how the famous song of that name acquired that name).

Doing that on the DP machine is ridiculously easy. So? Practically speaking, why does that help us?

The DP machines have no automaton, so complicated mixes are difficult. But you do not have to mix the song in its entirety from start to finish. As long as you start every Mixdown session and use the same In and Out points, and run it all the way to the end until it shuts off by itself, any Mixdown tracks that you make will all be the same exact length. This means, that you could set up the mix specifically for song sections and then cut those sections out into an assembly.

For clarity, let me make a little operational illustration.

In Mixdown mode, spend time applying FX EQ etc. whatever you want to get only the introduction of the song absolutely perfect. Don't concern yourself with any part of the song except the introduction. Practice the mix moves that you need to do until you're confident that you have only the introduction section as good as it possibly can get, press record and let it run all the way to the end. Copy that file into a folder in your computer, and rename it to Intro.

While still in Mixdown mode, now concentrate on the first verse of the song only. Apply FX, etc. the way you need them to sound on the verse, or verses. Do a mixdown where you ignore the previous intro, and concentrate on only mixing the verse sections as perfectly as you can. Copy and name that file Verse. Do the same with the bridge, chorus, solo, ending/fade out, until you have a collection of tracks that represent a perfectly mixed song, but in pieces.

Reset the machine to a normaled state (See Phil Tipping's video), and create a song with the same resolution of the song you just mixed, and call it whatever you want. From your PC, copy all those song parts into the Audio Depot. Import all of those files into the stereo tracks on the DP machine. Remember that you have virtual tracks too.

Since you used the same In and Out set points for each recorded section, they will all line up perfectly. Now, you can really start to have fun! Play your perfect intro, and then quickly switch to your perfect verse. At this point, you have a couple of options. You could use the In and Out set points and copy paste and take snippets of these tracks and assemble them onto an open track. Or, if your mix is rather simple you may be able to do a new mixdown simply muting and unmuting the different sections as required.

Once you have a complete track put together, press record and let it run to make a new mixdown file (don't forget to set your In and Out points the same as the original). Now you can experiment with different Mastering options on your perfect mix. There is absolutely nothing stopping you from doing the process over with Mastered tracks because Mastering is a dynamic process like mixing. You might have to hit a loud chorus a little harder with the limiting, than you might for a softer verse. So there's nothing wrong with cutting together mastered sections too.

 

[darcy]

ty for explaining this makes total sense one question... Lets say i mix my intro using your method.. it ends at the 30 second mark... when i go to do my mixdown for my verse... do i have to start it at the 30 second mark?

thanks

 

[-mjk-]

No. In order for that technique to work correctly, you have to use the same in and out points so the files will be the same length when you reimport them back into a new song. That way you just mute and unmute channels or use the faders to go in and out of the different sections. So basically, as you're mixing the song for one type of section like a verse for example, you just ignore the rest of the song and mix for the verse. But you do the same thing for the intro, and the choruses, etc. It takes a while to do it, but unless you have an actual mixing console with automation or use automation envelopes in a DAW there's no other way to get that level of precision on a DP machine.

 

[darcy]

thanks a billion that's what i thought just curious couldn't i do i do a similar method with bouncing the into to free track.. and so on for the rest the song?

 

[-mjk-]

Yes of course you can. That would be in real time however, so if you mess it up you have to start back at the beginning each time. If you don't have a complex mix, it should be okay.

 

[darcy]

appreciate the help... i will try both methods and see which i perfer... is mixdown not in real time too... if you mess up wouldn't you have to remix the track again?

 

[-mjk-]

Yes. To be clear, what I meant was that you would have to do it start-to-finish in a single pass. Or, do sections. Or, have someone else mix it for you.

 

[darcy]

ill try the method you suggested currently ive been bouncing mixes... it seems almost the same as your method... I'm not clear what you mean from start to finish... because i can bounce a intro... verse... chorus just like tour mixdown method... essentially aren't you doing sections in your method? btw id never have someone mix for me... ive been mixing for over 30 years but this is my first digital one... mostly worked with 4 and 8 track 2 inch tape. appreciate the advice

 

[-mjk-]

There are 2 ways under discussion. One is using Mixdown, the other is using Bounce. Recording to tracks using Bounce can be done in sections. You have to be good with punch-ins, but by all means, try it.

My previous post described a method of creating several full length Mixdown files, and mixing mixes.

There are always many ways to accomplish the end result. No right or wrong - it's the results that count.

FWIW, my background is 24 track analog.

 

[darcy]

fwi my background is post production film... if we are comparing backgrounds... not really sure why you said your background... im not doubting you... backgrounds can actually be irrelevant... but since you listed yours i listed mine... i appreciate your help lets close this thread... im getting odd vibes. and as i stated ive been using the bounce method and they do not require punch ins at all... for one to assume and send links with no text you didnt read my part about i use bouncing for my mixes

im getting a impression from you i dont really like... lots of valuable info here lets close the thread a d make it readable only... you are a mod and can probably do that.

 

[-mjk-]

@darcy I have no idea what you're talking about.


Did you or did you not say the following?:

ive been mixing for over 30 years but this is my first digital one... mostly worked with 4 and 8 track 2 inch tape. appreciate the advice

You told me your background, so I shared mine with you.

im getting a impression from you i dont really like

You have been accusatory from the beginning.

You are on your own from now on. I am unwatching this thread and ignoring you. I have never met anyone so impolite and suspicious on the forum.

 

[darcy]

you've been talking down ti me through the whole thread.... thats why im acting this way

 

[Mark Richards]

The majority of people coming to the DP-24/32/SD forum aren't audio professionals. Some are laying hands on a fader for the first time.

That's why this forum exists - to help songwriters and musicians who are using a portastudio to dip their toes into the multitrack recording realm.

We start from the assumption that first time visitors here are in that category unless we're told otherwise.

I imagine anyone with the kind of experience Darcy has would be able to figure out the easiest and effective way to mix down segments of fully recorded tracks using a DP-24/32/SD.

And I'm right. Darcy knows that faders can be ridden, track segments can be silenced; and later on we learned Darcy is bouncing tracks to get the job done.

So the simple, straight forward answer to the original question is "you've got it covered".

However, mjk pointed Darcy to a thread describing mjk's method that's more complex than riding faders, silencing track segments, and bouncing things around.

Another more complex method I've used involves copy/paste physical track segments to an empty virtual track of the physical track and activating those virtual track segments during mixdown. Taking a few minutes to peruse the stickies, or doing a search of the stickies, easily will turn up the relevant posts on virtual tracks that, while not directly on point, will point out the concept and get people going in the right direction. I'm not going to rehash it here.

Close the thread - absolutely not. The threads in this forum aren't a private exchange between two or a few people. They're here to help all forum members. There's lots more life here for the majority of forum members to tap into and learn from. In my opinion.

With that said, I'm off to parts unknown and won't be back to this thread.

 

[darcy]

what experience are you talking about?

i work post production in film... mostly adr... adr has very little mixer use... so im not sure why you are assuming the know all... infact know very little when it comes to mixing music... why do you think i asked the bloody question about an easier way then riding faders or bouncing?

 

[Arjan P]

@darcy: Maybe you don't sense it, but as a lurker only in this topic I'm under the impression this thread is finished. I can only give you one advice: stop the debate and let it rest.