External Preamp Experiences

[thamesfisherman]

Hello friends - Like many people with the Model 24 I also own and would like to use my external preamps, however my experience hooking up the preamps through the line-ins has not been so seamless.

I own a 2 channel external preamp with transformers on the input and outputs. I hooked both up through the line ins of the 24 and it sounds...strange...hyped, unnatural. I'm using balanced cables. The sound is much clearer when simply going through the 24.

Can we start this thread with everyone giving their experiences regarding external preamps and the Model 24/16/12? What external preamps are you using? How are you hooking them up/settings? Please link to some of your recordings. Let's have fun with this. Thanks,

TF

 

[Blue Monster 65]

Soyuz The Launcher here - just plug it in (XLR), turn the phantom power on, and away we go. Sounds great. Mind you, though, I like the preamps on the Model 16 as they are, too.

I also use a Boss VE-20 as a sort of preamp/effects box, set up the same way (minus the phantom power). Not quite what you're looking for there, but it works well.

 

[Morgelec]

I run a 500 series box with an API and Neve clones that I built. I also have a Cranborne audio Camden 500 Pre. I usually bypass my model 12 preamps by plugging into the insert channels.
I've got an LA2A compressor clone that I built too, which gives me a big sound. I will say though the Tascam preamps are fine, I like them a lot. I don't have any audio files up right now, working on it and will post something hopefully soon.

 

[thamesfisherman]

Thanks Blue Monster; your profile picture looks like a mutant cat. I also tried a Launcher but felt the transformer made it out of whack with the other channels on the board. I was using it for vocals and they stuck out too much.

Morgelec - that's some nice gear. I assume you have XLR - TRS cables into the line ins? Is the output from the preamps +4?

Would love to hear some sound samples when you get a chance. Are you an artist? Producer?

I also like the 24's preamps, however transformer coupled/valve preamps have an ability to tame the highs that I really love (especially with my condensers). I like that more "fundamental" tone.

Keep em coming; would love to hear someone who is using top gear (neves, manley, etc.) and feels like they have a "professional" level tone with the 24.

 

[-mjk-]

I've got an LA2A compressor clone that I built too, which gives me a big sound.

Legend. Please give us more details in the Recording 101 forum!

 

[-mjk-]

I don't own the Model series but I have extensive microphone and preamp experience in a professional recording environment. My advice is to start with the best mic that suits your voice. For years, I've always used some kind of Neumann tube mic on my personal vocals, be it a U48, M49, U67, etc.. Then someone suggested that I try an AKG C414 and I couldn't believe how well that mic matched my voice. I have a lot of upper natural midrange and the Neumann's emphasis in that area (which is great for most singers) was not beneficial to me. The 414 was flatter in that range and sounded incredible.

The point I'm making is that even an expensive and very capable mic just may not be a good match for your voice. Also, some people swear by singing off-axis and using a different pattern. It pays to play around with it.

I realize that you probably can't afford to drop a couple of grand on experimenting with mics, but there are a few really great ones out there that won't break the bank. My personal favorite is the JTS JS-1Tube, which is a 9 pattern, tube preamplified large capsule condenser mic. The street price is about USD $300. If you search for tube microphones you will find quite a few affordable ones. (Side note: if anyone has trouble finding JTS mics, I can assist with that). This video might be helpful:

I have a Tascam TM-80 and I was surprised how good it sounds! It cost $45 here in Taiwan.

Preamps come in a wide range of types and colors. There are tube preamps that also feature tube compressors and some with EQ built in. I like those types a lot because it's like getting several devices in a single package. In the old days my vocal chain would consist of an LA2A and Pultec EQ. So right from the mic, it was 100% tube up to the API mic pre. Recently, someone sold me a box of all their music production equipment and it included an ART tube preamp. It is a cheaper model that retails for under $200. It also features a tube compressor and I think it's pretty good. overall. I used it on a session with my daughter and the previously mentioned JTS mic and it sounded great. With that mic and the ART preamp, I had a tube vocal chain for less than $500. Great warmth and tone. Also, very essential is how you bring the output of a preamp into your recording device. Experiment with the output gain of the preamp and the input gain of your console/interface. There is usually a sweet spot that works very well once you find it.

 

[Morgelec]

Morgelec - that's some nice gear. I assume you have XLR - TRS cables into the line ins? Is the output from the preamps +4?

Would love to hear some sound samples when you get a chance. Are you an artist? Producer?

Keep em coming; would love to hear someone who is using top gear (neves, manley, etc.) and feels like they have a "professional" level tone with the 24.

Yes, +4, I run a API 6 Slot lunchbox.

I enjoy DIY and 500 series is actually an economical way to get into it. As you know the chassis provides the power so you can pick up high end gear for a pretty good price. You can save some money if you can solder too by getting kits to build. I have built Sound Sculptor and CAPI kits. And not to forget my latest build, a MicParts D12 microphone.

My wife and I are songwriters and one of the main reasons I picked up a model 12 is so my wife can record tracks when I'm not around. She has no desire at all to get into DAW's but is putting down tracks with the 12. A DAW would not be good for her creativity, and I'm enjoying turning it on and doing some work with no computer. We are working on a new original material right now and do plan on posting to the net in the next few months.

 

[thamesfisherman]

Thanks mjk, yes I've been recording for a while and agree with a lot of what you said.

Thanks Morgelec for the update.

Anyone else using the Model 24 with professional level gear? Is it possible for a small pro studio to use the Model 24 as the centerpiece (with outboard, nice mics, etc.)?

Would love to hear projects from people using external preamps with the 24. Please include your settings and the types of preamps you're using

 

[-mjk-]

@thamesfisherman said:

Is it possible for a small pro studio to use the Model 24 as the centerpiece (with outboard, nice mics, etc.)?

It might be possible for a small project studio to use the Model 24 as the centerpiece of their studio for personal music projects. But to do the kinds of editing that people want today, and also the ability to use virtual instruments, do scoring for film/video, etc., there would have to be some kind of DAW involved. The Model 24 is a console with a recorder for live shows, basically.

 

[thamesfisherman]

Good point MJK - I should have qualified - is it possible for a studio that wants to work DAW-less to make "professional" results with external preamps and the m24.

I realize that term is subjective.

I know a lot of professional records were made with ADAT's with preamps plugged in; same goes for the older all-in-ones like the roland vs2480, etc.

The flexibility to plug in any preamp possible into the 24 would make it so versatile, especially with the built in effects, etc. And for someone who wants to be DAW-less it's perfect.

Just haven't had luck getting my external preamps to sound good; hoping other people can show me the opposite.

 

[-mjk-]

@thamesfisherman This needs to be said: the Model series have very limited editing capability. Plus you cannot bounce tracks or do submixes internally. With the Model 24 you have to use patch cables and it's a workaround. IMO, one would get more professional results with a DP-24/32 than any of the Model series without using a DAW whatsoever. As I said, they are mixing consoles with internal recorders. They are not portastudios. They were never intended to be a total, standalone recording solution. But, that's also subjective because it depends upon what you are working with and what the desired outcome is.

 

[thamesfisherman]

Great, thanks MJK for all your input.

Others with external preamp experiences with the M24 please share your story

 

[BazzBass]

not with the model series, but I have bought SO MANY bass preamp pedals for recording with my 2488,and Reaper before that, some tube preamps. Tried them all, then one day I couldn't be bothered and plugged my bass straight in....Oh, THERE was my tone all this time lol
Dunno if that helps you or not hehe

 

[JSchmo_Bass]

I agree with Buzz Bass. i have been cycling through a bunch of bass preamp pedals this past 6 months.

I have yet to find one that sounds as good as the straight instrument in on the Model 16….

seriously, these preamps sound really really good for instrument direct in.