"File Error" erases multiple tracks

[shredd]

Well, the sky has fallen. For the first time, my DP-32 has absolutely jumped the shark.

I DID have one episode of "File Error" this winter - but I pulled the power, restarted, and everything was fine. I didn't even have to restore from backup.
Not this time.

I've been working on a collaboration with @ButchA the last few weeks - much fun! - and it's really come a long way.
It was up to about 18 tracks, a couple in stereo, several with Virtual Tracks of alternative takes. I was actually getting ready to finish tracking and start 'production'.
Since I'm putting a lot of work into it, I've been backing it up nearly every day - I connect my laptop via the USB connection, and copy the entire song folder from the DP to the backup folder on my laptop. It seems to work - I've actually restored/recovered a couple of tracks I'd deleted, then changed my mind about.

Tonight, I was working on a track (recording alt takes on V trax). I did a take, was unhappy with it, and used the "Undo" list to go back...and instead of going back the one step I'd asked, it displayed "File Error", and all panel buttons became unresponsive. It came down to having to "hard" shutdown (via the power button).

So I "rebooted" and opened up the USB connection to the laptop again, and replaced the ENTIRE song folder on the DP with the backup I'd done yesterday, thinking it would put me back where I was.
WRONG. Despite ALL tracks from the backup (tracks, V-tracks, .sys file, the last master mix I did, EVERYTHING) being replaced back on the DP...it is now missing about HALF of the tracks that were in the song.
I tried loading a different song, then reloading the one I'm having trouble with - no change.
I tried shutting down the DP and starting up again (like a "reboot") - no change.
I tried repeating the "restore" from the laptop to the DP - no change.
I tried simply erasing the song in the menu...then restoring it to the SD card via USB - no change.
I tried putting an entirely different SanDisk Extreme Pro card in, and restoring the song to THAT card - no change.

So now this song is missing a number of tracks I spent weeks putting together - and restoring them from backups is not working.
The weird thing is that all the FILES are there. But it would appear that whichever file is the one that tells the DP what each file is and where it goes and so on - must be the one that got corrupted/damaged. Yet replacing EVERYTHING from backup has not resolved it.
The SD card is a not-very-old SanDisk Extreme Pro, with VERY few insertion/removals; and ALL other songs on the card seem to be just fine.
So CLEARLY it's just this one song that got "damaged" - and it's apparently the damaged file is the one that tells the DP the song's "structure" - which .wav file is on which track/V-track, etc...the files are in the song's folder, but do NOT appear on the tracks they were recorded on (or anywhere else).

Anyone care to chime in on what I'm missing/mis-doing?

 

[shredd]

I think I'm coming to a conclusion that makes no sense, but might explain it:

Somehow, when I'd back up the project (open USB connection to laptop, and copy the entire song folder from DP->laptop) it was corrupted THEN - likely both on the laptop AND the DP. So the back up that’s on my laptop is the one that’s corrupted and missing the tracks.
So when the DP had a problem and corrupted the song, restoring from the back up, & restored an “already damaged” copy of the song…

I'm completely flummoxed and have no explanation or understanding of how this happened. AND I've lost a project with manymany hours put in.

 

[Phil Tipping]

Sorry to hear this; must be very frustrating.
But it just goes to show how important it is to have a good backup strategy in place. Backups should never be overwritten for the reason you've found. Either use different folders for each backup named with the date & time (I use yyyy-mm-dd-hh-mm so the default alphabetic sort order on file/folder-names is equivalent to chronological order), or use a simple 'version number' scheme. If I do the latter, I use 'nnn' or 'nnnn' with leading zeroes for the same reasons when sorting (you've probable already seen cases where sequential numbers like 1,2,3... appear in a sorted order with 10,11... first and 1,2,3... coming afterwards).

As to why the error happened, it could be many reasons. Maybe that first 'file error' you had was a sign that something was going wrong. I think we've always advised reformatting cards as soon as possible after a glitch to ensure errors are nipped in the bud, so not sure if you did that.

You're right in that the .sys files are crucial in maintaining the song's integrity, so if these get corrupted, it could exhibit all sorts of problems. I think @Mark Richards had some suggestions about recovering these. My only suggestion is to try and manually collate the ZZ files using a DAW and reconstruct the missing tracks into single wave files, then import them into a new song. The files are time-stamped so it should make it a bit easier.
Good luck!

 

[ButchA]

Oh no @shredd !!!

I have your rough mixed track from your Google Drive folder, and that's all. I hope you can get things recovered or restored.

 

[mixerizer]

that suuuuucks and while i dont use a DP, ive been there! why does it always seem to happen w the precious recordings?

trying to reconstruct the track from the constituent audio files after losing the file data for the session is such a pain in the ass, im sorry for the momentary setback to your and butch’s collaboration.

road scars. keep up the great work and u will find ways to put some extra safety in ur everyday habitual backup procedures.

 

[-mjk-]

I want to give a giant Unlike to this topic.

 

[Mark Richards]

SanDisk Extreme Pro...I was working on a track...used the "Undo" list to go back...and instead of going back the one step I'd asked, it displayed "File Error", and all panel buttons became unresponsive. It came down to having to "hard" shutdown (via the power button)... now this song is missing a number of tracks...apparently the damaged file is the one that tells the DP the song's "structure"...

The song.sys or editable.sys may not be corrupted. If either was, I don't think the song would load at all. Try the file recovery steps in the Equipment Tips sticky, including on the {songname}.wav files.

This might be the first time we've had a reported issue with the SanDisk Extreme Pro.

 

[Phil Tipping]

Might be the wrong place for this, but it's relevant to sd-card errors so I'll post it here and it can be moved later...

Just found this recommendation in Tascam's manual for the Portacapture X8:

Using the ERASE FORMAT option might improve writing performance that has decreased due to repeated use. If “Write error REC continue” or “Card slow Check BOF MARK” appears during recording, format the card using the ERASE FORMAT option. ERASE FORMAT checks the memory for errors while formatting, so it takes more time than QUICK FORMAT

I know it's not the same device as the DP models, but it's the first time I've seen it in Tascam's documentation that writing performance and/or errors degrades over time with repeated use.
I guess the 'erase format' function is equivalent to the DP's 'full format', so this confirms the general consensus (and advice in the sticky notes) that a full format is a good thing every now and again, especially when errors start appearing.

 

[shredd]

Thanks to ALL for chiming in. Some very good tips n tricks there - several of which I'm going to immediately undertake (most notably @Mark Richards suggestion of the sticky notes having tips; the re-format/restoration of the SD card; and most importantly, modifying my backup procedures per @Phil Tipping suggestions.

Whether or not I can "reconstitute" the lost tracks is uncertain; I sure hope so. But it appears that I'm going to be putting many hours into either that, or re-tracking certain parts.

 

[shredd]

You're right in that the .sys files are crucial in maintaining the song's integrity, so if these get corrupted, it could exhibit all sorts of problems. I think @Mark Richards had some suggestions about recovering these. My only suggestion is to try and manually collate the ZZ files using a DAW and reconstruct the missing tracks into single wave files, then import them into a new song. The files are time-stamped so it should make it a bit easier.
Good luck!

This is going to be the foundation of what I've learned from this disaster - to "renovate" my backup strategy.
We've all heard (harped on ourselves) endlessly about the importance of backups.
The great irony here is that (as one of them!) I backup devotedly - but, using the "overwrite" method, rather than saving incremental backups.
I TOLDJA I was stewpyd!!!

So...yeah - after a full format of the card, restoring it from backups...the next step will be to individually explore the .wav files, to see if there's anything left of what I'd tracked to reassemble things...or else start re-tracking stuff.
I'm bent 'cuz I've put a lot of time into this - @ButchA came up with a nice song and I saw great potential in it, and have "grown" it into a really nice piece. I think it's gonna be terrific. So I'm not about to give up on it...

 

[shredd]

But it just goes to show how important it is to have a good backup strategy in place. Backups should never be overwritten for the reason you've found

This appears to be the crux of my problem - my strategy has been to "overwrite" the project folder every day, using the (clearly flawed!) logic that each day when I work on the project, it's at a "new state" that should be preserved.
Overlooking the (should be painfully obvious) fact that having PREVIOUS days' backups allows you to go back, in case the CURRENT days' version (as is the case here) is somehow damaged.
So - having learned the hard way that my backup strategy is flawed - I'm looking at quite a few hours recreating the lost tracks.

I TOLDJA I was stewpyd...

 

[shredd]

Well…the Eagle Has Landed…

After a loooong morning of carrying out the whole range of fixes/suggestions/tips on recovery, I’ve come out with a moderately tolerable outcome: the song is intact and in place, but I’ve lost the entire stereo drum track - assembled out of dozens of parts I played (on my ZOOM) by hand (and, ironically, are all still on the card, but are NOT present in any track).

I guess I could try to “import” them all, and cut-n-paste them all into the track I had finished…but I don’t think even the DP-32 has room for that. It appears that I’ll be programming an entirely new drum track (unless one of you guyz/gurlz wanna come over with nachos and beer and play it???)

The real bugaboo about this is when the ‘meltdown’/freeze-up happened, I wasn’t even working with the drum parts or drum track - I was working on something else entirely, which is STILL intact on the card and in place in the project. Go figure…the Tascam Gremlins at work…

So I guess that the one GOOD thing that will come out of this is that I’m going to improve my backup strategy. Thanks @Phil Tipping !

 

[Mark Richards]

...I’ve lost the entire stereo drum track - assembled out of dozens of parts I played (on my ZOOM) by hand (and, ironically, are all still on the card, ...I guess I could try to “import” them all, and cut-n-paste them all into the track I had finished…but I don’t think even the DP-32 has room for that.

Can you create a "Drums" song; bring all the drum parts into that; mix those down to stereo; and import the stereo drum mix to your project song (or some variations/iterations of doing that)?

 

[shredd]

Can you create a "Drums" song; bring all the drum parts into that; mix those down to stereo; and import the stereo drum mix to your project song (or some variations/iterations of doing that)?

Maybe I'm not so stewpyd after all?? That was the exact approach I considered: "import" all those .wav's into a new song, arrange them as they were, then turn THAT into a .wav that could be inserted into the original project.
It was a no-go only because the DP shark-jump seems to have erased/eliminated the track I originally had all the little drum-sections I'd played, then cut up & arranged for the song. It's also possible that I'M the one who erased that, unknowingly, during my backup fiasco.

SO - I've been recreating all those little sections on my ZOOM (the RT-223) - but programming them this time, rather than just playing them live into the DP.

The NEW problem is that my 223 seems to have a brain-lock going and isn't allowing me to arrange the patterns I've created into sequence for the song...so unless I record them individually and do the whole arrangement thing again, it's no good.
SO: I'm actually considering doing it AGAIN - creating all those patterns - on another ZOOM I have, the MRT-3b (which is a basic entry-level machine, but sounds freekin' great). And it sequences patterns very nicely, which my 223 doesn't seem to be able or want to. I don't have the brain-space to trouble-shoot my 223 and figure out why it won't sequence.
I thought about using my RT-234, which is SUPER high-end...but - amazingly - the little MRT-3b sounds better. Go figure.

Sure wish I new a real drummer (or could play worth a day myself)!!!

 

[David Porter]

EZ Drummer2/3 is the way to go.

 

[shredd]

EZ Drummer2/3 is the way to go.

I'd have to agree - EZD is a pretty spectacular piece o' kit. I've looked into it.

And that's coming from someone who makes every possible effort to keep the computer OUT of the music-making process. I'm very "old-school"...that's probably the real reason I don't use it.

But I'm not gonna get into the debate - not in a PortaStudio forum. The mod's will send studio ghouls to unplug all my cables and pile them in the middle of the room.

 

[-mjk-]

If the zz files are intact, I suppose it might be possible to import them into a DAW and painstakingly edit them together.

 

[shredd]

If the zz files are intact, I suppose it might be possible to import them into a DAW and painstakingly edit them together.

That was GONNA be my plan - except some of them are missing...the ENTIRE completed/arranged drum track is gone, and most of the "zz" .wav files I built it out of are gone too.
So I'm pretty much recreating it...it's not terribly complex (which is good, 'cuz I'm not the most expert drum-programmer!).
I'll either piece the full track together from sections again - or I'll program one of my drum machines to do the whole song (works great, but sorta time consuming...)

What I really need is to find a drummer who's willing to play on my tracks, and maybe do a little light housekeeping and errands...

 

[BazzBass]

OH NOOOOOoooooooooooooooo

I'm so anal I backup to the pc, then copy that onto a Samsung 1Tb SSD, AND copy it onto another Samsung 1TB SSD and maybe copy it onto a third Samsung 1Tb ssd lol rotfl....

of course, I could ask George to add a drum track to it when we do your song, whenever we get THAT together.........I'm hoping next week for sure after my illness this week...

 

[-mjk-]

That was GONNA be my plan - except some of them are missing...the ENTIRE completed/arranged drum track is gone, and most of the "zz" .wav files I built it out of are gone too.
So I'm pretty much recreating it...it's not terribly complex (which is good, 'cuz I'm not the most expert drum-programmer!).
I'll either piece the full track together from sections again - or I'll program one of my drum machines to do the whole song (works great, but sorta time consuming...)

What I really need is to find a drummer who's willing to play on my tracks, and maybe do a little light housekeeping and errands...

But I thought:

After a loooong morning of carrying out the whole range of fixes/suggestions/tips on recovery, I’ve come out with a moderately tolerable outcome: the song is intact and in place, but I’ve lost the entire stereo drum track - assembled out of dozens of parts I played (on my ZOOM) by hand (and, ironically, are all still on the card, but are NOT present in any track).

So, the track pieces are not on the card?