FR-AV 2 Question

[-mjk-]

lol, it's not "some enigmatic software thing." Somehow the system file is being deleted. It happens with the DP-24/32 also.

But I don’t see why it should happen at all. Seems to me it’s something that should happen under the hood, with no need to trouble the user.

The machine is telling you the problem, you just have to stop theorizing and troubleshoot it.

In normal operation there is no reason for that file to be missing. It is somehow being deleted. We have seen this on the DP machines. If it's missing it will be recreated on the SD card, but the point is, it lives on the SD card.

 

[Regal1956]

Troubleshoot what? Nowhere in the user manual is there a description of this problem. And when this warning appears, I simply press the F4 button, the warning disappears and I’m able to record with no further interruptions. So what’s the point of this warning screen?

As for “stop theorizing and troubleshoot it,” if neither the user manual nor anyone else explain what this warning screen means, how am I supposed to troubleshoot? Forgive me for saying this, but you’re faulting me for not knowing what no one is telling me.

In fact, I’ve apparently solved the problem. Pressing F4 makes the screen go away every time, and I’m able to get on with recording. So my objection is that this warning is pointless. It requires a user action where no alternative action is possible. Software engineers have a variety of terms for such pointless steps: digital hurdle, micro-interaction friction, unnecessary complexity, user friction. All these terms describe the same thing. They’re a violation of the “Keep It Simple, Stupid” axiom for good software design.

 

[Mark Richards]

What mj, a professional audio engineer, is telling you is that it's not normal for the system file suddenly to not be on the SD card.

You need to find out *why* it's happening.
Either
1. The unit somehow is inadvertantly not creating the system file on the SD card during the format process, or you are inadvertantly deleting it during the handling; or
2. The SD card is not a tested/approved card, and erratic behavior results; or
3. The firmware is not up to date; or
4. You have a defective unit.

You can troubleshoot 1,2, and 3 yourself. If that yields no joy, then it could be 4, and at that point only TASCAM support can resolve it.

If you continue to "just press F4", you may come to seriously regret taking the easy way out. The message is a warning something is very wrong, and the operating system just saved your bacon.

ps TASCAM is no longer known for producing steller user manuals. We try on this site to help overcome the deficiencies of TASCAM's user manuals, most times successfully; but sometimes not, in particular concerning TASCAM products with which we don't have hands-on experience. But we try.

I have no experience with your recorder, nor do I have the user manual handy. But I do know that where necessary for the product, TASCAM places information about the use of tested SD cards at the beginning of the manual; and usually provides a complete list of messages, error codes, and their meaning at the back of the manual. I'm surprised (but maybe I shouldn't be) that something as important as the system file message isn't there.

 

[Regal1956]

Okay, I just spoke to Sweetwater (where I bought my FR-AV 2) tech support. The tech support person seemed as mystified as I am, and said Sweetwater would send me a replacement. So we’ll see if my current device is in fact defective.

Just to frame this situation from the view of a user with no software or technical training, please consider the following.

Here’s the warning screen I’m seeing:
File Not Found
Make System File

But in the user manual, here’s the closest thing I can find to what I’m seeing:
File Not Found
The file was not found or might be damaged.
Check the relevant file.

First, notice these aren’t the same message, and they’re telling the user to do two different things. “Make system file” isn’t the same as “check the relevant file.” Second, in either of these directives, what precisely is the user supposed to do? There’s nothing here a user with no specialized training would understand. The manual offers no clear procedure for carrying out either of these directives. So neither are actionable by the user in any realistic way.

A common mistake in user manuals is to write as though addressing people who are already experts in the device being described. Too often, technical writers make no real effort to put themselves in the shoes of users confronting a complex device for the first time. I hasten to add that, as one who’s written an instructional method myself, I understand how hard this is to do. Writing a good instruction manual is an art unto itself. That said, many companies clearly regard user manuals as an annoying detail, to be done with little effort and expense.

I’ll close with a suggestion to tech experts. When talking to non-experts, please understand that we don’t always share your deeper understanding of the matter at hand. For example, if I’m talking to non-musicians about composing music, I don’t assume they know what parallel fifths are. Though it’s basic knowledge to me, it isn’t to them. So I meet them at their level, not mine.

Tech experts are wise to do the same.

 

[Mark Richards]

@Regal1956, I took the time to d/l from the TASCAM support site the user manual, most current version 1.03 (2024-11-26) [https://tascam.com/us/product/fr-av2/support]

Manual "Section 1-5. Using microSD cards", provides the necessary information for identifying and using only tested/approved SD cards. It also cautions: "Note about formatting: Use this unit to format the microSD cards to be used with it. Errors might occur when recording with this unit using a microSD card formatted by a computer or other device."

While on the TASCAM website, it's wise to check the most current firmware version (1.04, 2025-10-06) and d/l the update, if needed.

So those address my #1, #2 and #3.
(and you've ruled those out, correct?)

-----------
Manual "Section 18. Messages" includes:
"Invalid SysFile, Make Sys File
The system file required to operate this unit is invalid.
Tap the screen to create a system file"
(not informative. "Invalid" could mean "out of date" - created by old firmware; or "damaged" - several possibilities, including improper handling, bad SD card, etc.)

--------
Manual "Section19. Troubleshooting"
"A file is not recognized"
(Most likely it would be the last bullet in the list)
"...Files that are damaged cannot be shown correctly by this unit."
(Not exactly on point, but close if damage is caused by not using tested/approved SD cards, improper SD card handling, improper formatting, etc.)
--------

When talking to non-experts, please understand that we don’t always share your deeper understanding of the matter at hand.

TASCAM makes complex professional products, and unfortunately, sussing out TASCAM manuals often requires close attention, interpolation, intuition, interpretation, and educated guesswork.

About all we can do when we don't have hands-on knowledge is try to get you pointed in the right direction using the information available in the user manual.

Hopefully the replacement recorder will be the right solution.

 

[Joop]

You can't use SD-cards straight from the package you bought it in. You have to format the SD card *IN* the recorder. You also can't format the SD card in your computer, doesn't matter if this is a Windows system or an Apple system. You have to format the card *in* the recorder. During format important file(s) are written to the card. This will not happen if formatted in a computer system. It is also wise not to mix operations on the card, just use it for the recorder to save recordings and nothing else. I asked you twice about formatting and didn't get any response on this subject.

 

[-mjk-]

Troubleshoot what?

How the required file keeps getting deleted. Fortunately that should be a very easy issue to troubleshoot with a few very easy test steps.

Nowhere in the user manual is there a description of this problem.

Typical. But how a file is being deleted is not in the scope of a user manual about the recorder. Not being in the user manual is not a reflection on an issue's importance (or lack thereof).

And when this warning appears, I simply press the F4 button, the warning disappears and I’m able to record with no further interruptions.

Yes, we can all see what is happening. This is the machine doing what it was designed to do: Rectify the issue and inform you of both the problem and the solution.

So what’s the point of this warning screen?

The point of this warning screen is the same as all the rest of them (stated in the user manual or not): To provide information so you can stop doing whatever it is that is making the system file disappear. It all seems pointless to you but it is not.

This begs the question: If you don't see this as an issue and it doesn't stop you from recording, then what's the point of bringing it up?

When talking to non-experts, please understand that we don’t always share your deeper understanding of the matter at hand.

Ask a technical question, get a technical answer. Anything less would be disingenuous, wouldn't it?

 

[Regal1956]

You can't use SD-cards straight from the package you bought it in. You have to format the SD card *IN* the recorder. You also can't format the SD card in your computer, doesn't matter if this is a Windows system or an Apple system. You have to format the card *in* the recorder. During format important file(s) are written to the card. This will not happen if formatted in a computer system. It is also wise not to mix operations on the card, just use it for the recorder to save recordings and nothing else. I asked you twice about formatting and didn't get any response on this subject.

I apologize. Yes, I formatted the SD card in the way described by the user manual. Yes, I confirmed that the card I bought is compatible with the FR-AV 2. Whenever using a new device, I follow whatever instruction the manufacturer provides.

And now I owe you an explanation for my previous failure to answer your question. When sorting through responses in an online forum, I tend to overlook those that offer explanations I’ve already looked into. I had already formatted my SD card per the manufacturer’s instructions, and had also confirmed that it’s compatible with the FR-AV 2. So I focused on suggestions I either hadn’t considered or didn’t understand. I’m sure you’ll agree this is common behavior in online discussions. I meant no disrespect. You’ve been polite and helpful throughout this discussion.

 

[Regal1956]

MJK: I’ll respond to your last post (#27) in detail, because it illustrates the point I tried to make in my January 14th post (#24).

> How the required file keeps getting deleted. Fortunately that should be
> a very easy issue to troubleshoot with a few very easy test steps.

These “few very easy test steps” are nowhere to be found in the user manual.

> But how a file is being deleted is not in the scope of a user manual
> about the recorder. Not being in the user manual is not a reflection
> on an issue's importance (or lack thereof).

You’re saying this issue may be important, but its resolution is nowhere to be found in the user manual. And you’re faulting a non-tech user for not having the expertise to resolve the issue.

> Yes, we can all see what is happening. This is the machine doing what
> it was designed to do: Rectify the issue and inform you of both the problem
> and the solution.

If the issue was automatically rectified, then what’s the point of the warning? Aren’t software designers trained to avoid warning screens in which a problem has only one solution, and the solution is automatically done by the software? Smoothly working software doesn’t issue warnings that require no response from the user.

> The point of this warning screen is the same as all the rest of them
> (stated in the user manual or not): To provide information so you
> can stop doing whatever it is that is making the system file disappear.
> It all seems pointless to you but it is not.

It’s pointless because it’s not telling the user anything about what’s causing the problem. Instead, it’s vaguely describing the problem in a way a non-tech user won’t understand, and then saying nothing about how to solve it.

> This begs the question: If you don't see this as an issue and it
> doesn't stop you from recording, then what's the point of bringing
> it up?

Because within this discussion another tech expert (Mark Richards) told me it might be an issue. Am I supposed to ignore him? And when different experts give conflicting advice, how should a non-expert resolve the conflict?

> Ask a technical question, get a technical answer.
> Anything less would be disingenuous, wouldn't it?

You’re blaming the user for not being a trained technician. Consider this analogy. As a musician, I can explain music in a way utterly incomprehensible to non-musicians. That wouldn’t be their fault. It would be mine for unreasonably expecting them to have the same training and experience as mine.

I’m honestly mystified that you don’t see what I’m getting at. Indeed, I’ve already pointed out that Sweetwater’s tech support was stumped by the problem I reported. (They even decided to send me a replacement, even though I hadn’t asked for it.) So why would anyone expect me to do better?

 

[Mark Richards]

... I confirmed that the card I bought is compatible with the FR-AV 2. Whenever using a new device, I follow whatever instruction the manufacturer provides.... I had already formatted my SD card per the manufacturer’s instructions, and had also confirmed that it’s compatible with the FR-AV 2.

FYI going forward, the more detailed the information in an initial post, the better. That information would have been helpful to have up front, and saved me wasting time to find, download and read the user manual.

Knowing that would have directed my attention immediately toward outdated firmware, or a defective SD card that will eventually fail, as possibilities; and a two sentance reply rather than an epistle, no technical mumbo jumbo required.

...When sorting through responses in an online forum, I tend to overlook those that offer explanations I’ve already looked into...

I'm sure you've meant no disrespect, but on this, and other technical forums in which I participate, we consider it common courtesy to acknowledge when a member takes time away from a busy schedule to help someone else resolve a problem.

On this forum, if you take the time to look, you'll see that acknowledgement is accomplished often with a simple "like" for the helpful member's post.