Fully analog Home Studio with Tascam Model 16 & DSD recorder

[Gtelefon]

Best of both worlds. At the moment all I have is a stereo DSD recorder connected to Tascam Model 16. I want to achieve fully analog work flow (with DSD being almost identical to minus and plus tape signals). Engineers I care about compare the DSD sound to the sound of 30ips tape recorder - which puts me on a very privileged position when you think about the pricey tape system.
Looking for people with similar kind of enthusiasm to learn and get inspired.
Cheers!

 

[Morgelec]

Interesting, so then are you taking your stereo mix from the Mod 16 to the input on the DSD recorder? Do you use something like a Tascam DA-3000?

 

[-mjk-]

What some engineers are doing is mixing to tracks in the DAW and then running the tracks through a stereo tape machine. A small 30 ips 2-track isn't all that expensive these days.

 

[Gtelefon]

Yes, Morgelec, but in stead of Tascam DSD recorder what I have is KORG
DS-DAC-10R at the moment.

Thank you, mjk. Yes, and also the good 30ips tape machine is costly tape and maintenance. And what I am trying to achieve is more 30ips analog sound quality than the tape character (though I like it too).

 

[-mjk-]

The Tascam master recorder is over $800. That would pay for a pretty good tape machine and some maintenance, but your point is well taken.

My studio is hybrid, with both digital and analog consoles. When recording analog signals, I bring them into the Soundcraft Ghost and drive the inputs hot. Works great for drums. Then I send to the DAW through the digital console at the appropriate level. My tracks do not sound digital.

 

[Jeff Haigwood]

Hey I’m right there with you on a full analog home studio with a model 16. After recording master the stereo out through a maximizer and a Dbx compressor and then to a Denon cassette Tape Deck, I’ve really moved up in the world from the days of my old 4 track. Cheers!

 

[Gtelefon]

Jeff, thank you for your comment. I’m so glad to hear what you say. Is there like any way to look into your world of analog beauty creation (like a YT channel vlog or something? I love getting inspired by watching plus learn a lot. All the best!

 

[Jeff Haigwood]

gtelefon, I don’t have a YT channel or anything, I’ve been recording my bands in the studio space with my Model 16 after upgrading from a Fostex 4 track ( which I loved and understood). I haven’t had very good luck with DAW or computers, I’m still printing to cassette as of now, but I may finalize some didgital tracks and put them online. I was excited to hear another people wanted to stay analog with this thing too. Cheers!

 

[Gtelefon]

Jeff, thank you so much. In today’s world, one of the very solid option for a musician to make money on what you love doing anyhow is having a video channel. It’s absolutely easy to make 1 video a week about something you are passionate about. All it takes is start your iPhone video camera and do whatever you would do anyhow. It’s like a music club you are opening. When people feel they get inspired watching it, they gonna pay a monthly subscription to enter their happy zone you created. Have a wonderful day.

 

[Freebird]

Interesting discussion indeed!

In 1986 I bought a Tascam 244 Portastudio (still have it, and still working). For some years now I haven't had the time to do much recording, but now I have "retired" from "work-life", and a year ago I bought a Model 24 to start up my home recording studio again and wanted more channels available than the 244 has but still maintain a bit of analogue feeling so to speak. Of course, Model 16 and 24 are not 100% analogue since it saves the sound files as Wav on a digital SD card.

Model 16/24 has it's analogue advantages but also some analogue disadvantages. I wish it had direct analogue outputs for every single channels which would be really nice. That way one could record direct to multitrack reel to reel if I wanted that. But at the same time that is a VERY expensive solution these days.

So here are some things I'm going to test in the future:

Record to my Model 24 onto the SD card (=conversion from analogue to digital).
Then do a mix and route the channels trough SUB/Monitor1&2/FX analogue out to my Portastudio 244 and record this rough "master" mix to it's 4 channels (=digital to analogue conversion).

Then do a 4 channel master mix on the 244 using some external old reverbs, compressors etc that I used to use with it way back. (Or maybe only record to 2 channels on the 244... will probably test both things just out of curiosity)

Then route the Portastudio's 4 channels through my 4 channel U-phoria UMC 404HD sound card with MIDAS pre-amps to my DAW (= analogue to digital conversion) for final mastering and polishing and creating a 2 channel stereo file.

It's going to be interesting to see how it will work. But it will of course not be 100% analogue since there are SD cards and computers involved. But to bye a 24 channel reel to reel and expensive tapes are out of the question these day's... unless you're a Billionaire!

 

[Gtelefon]

Freebird, thank you very much for your very interesting part you shared. Would be so cool to follow you in the things you planned to do and hear it. Having worked in analog domain you must have a lot of experience. Pls share.
My plan at the is to use my dsd recorder to record a track (like drums) out of Tascam Model 16. Then to play the track by another dsd player through Tascam left panned while playing my bass guitar through right panned channel - while recording those to channels in my dsd recorder. For a simple three piece recording, next I am going to play the recorded 2 tracks by my stereo dsd player into Tascam and mix into one channel panned left while recording my pedal steel guitar into another channel panned right - while recording those panned channels into my dsd stereo recorder. What I will get is 3 instruments stereo dsd recording: drums and bass in left channel, and pedal steel guitar in right channel. Then I will play them into Tascam, the rhythm section in one channel panned centred, and the pedal steel guitar in another channel plus aux into a stereo effect. So I should get a full panorama sonically.
Well, these are my plans. Cheers.
P.S.
I make videos of my attempts, which prove very nice to watch even if only by myself.

 

[Freebird]

Hi Gtelefon. Yeah... I have seen and watched your videos, and like them alot. And I like your funny animated gif to... nodding the head in "tune with the music". I will update you when I have tested what I described above, although it may take some time since I have other projects to tend to first. Cheers!

 

[Jeff Haigwood]

Honestly both of you guys lost me with all the bouncing around from machine to machine, I'm still trying to figure it all out. I like using the old outboard gear I already have, and I feel like for my purposes the model 16 can do almost all of it except the mix down export, since my computers are worthless. My work around is still just printing to cassette tape.

 

[-mjk-]

Hey, I'm so retro/analog that I belong to a mailing list of retired recording engineers. We send each other email attachments with files of our latest mixdowns, in formats that no one has used since 1989.

But seriously, no one would believe my recording chain.

 

[Blue Monster 65]

Sooo ... MJK ... don’t leave us hanging! Give us the rundown, man!

 

[Gtelefon]

Guys, I really appreciate your comments. Please, tell us how we can follow you to learn, enjoy and get inspired. Cheers!

 

[Gtelefon]

Hi, Freebird, thank you so much. I cannot wait for the update from you. Have a great time doing your projects.

 

[-mjk-]

Sooo ... MJK ... don’t leave us hanging! Give us the rundown, man!

OK. After playing around for a few years with various methodologies, I've more or less settled on my current setup. I must admit though, it does change around a lot. I end up making improvements and scrapping entire sessions because I want to record the tracks over again with the new setup, lol. I alluded to it above, but below are details and a link to some Google photos.

I might have to moderate my own reply and move it to the general recording section, lol.
----
I wrote about the general idea here and what lead me down this path: About Me And PFM Studio | Phoenix Media Forge

With regard to this thread of analog, here are the relevant details.:

I have 2 consoles: 1: Behringer X32, 2: Vintage Soundcraft Ghost.

The Ghost is a 32 input, 8-bus console.

All analog inputs that I want to record come into the Ghost. That would be drum machine, guitar amp simulator, direct boxes, mics, keyboards, etc.. These come up on individual line/mic input channels on the Ghost. Outboard FX can be brought into the Ghost also. I assign the Ghost inputs to any of the busses 1 through 4 and make panning adjustments as necessary.

I bring Ghost busses 1 through 4 into the X32 on 4 TRS 6.5mm jacks on the Aux inputs (see photo that shows Aux 1-4 "SC Ghost 1 - 4").

I also have a stereo bus subgroup setup on the X32 to feed the Ghost (see the photo showing Bus 7 & 8 that say "SC Ghost Bus" with the tape machine icon).

I have to be careful to not generate a feedback loop , but it would have to purposeful really. My workflow doesn't create such situations normally.

Any signal that I want to send to the Ghost for some analog "warming" is easy. For example, I was mixing someone's record and I wanted to warm up the lead vocal track. The Ghost EQ is legendary. The Ghost is great for making lifeless digital-sounding tracks sound "like a record" or even correcting weird EQ situations. Since I bring those signals back into the X32 (see below), I still have full RTA capability on the Aux channels even when I'm turning EQ knobs on the Ghost.

After the Ghost signals come into the X32, there are still 4 band parametric EQ and dynamics available. The Aux channels are mono, pannable, and I can add any FX from the X32, just like any other input channel. Plus, the Aux channels (like everything else on the X32) is fully controlled by my mixing automation, X32ReaperAutoMate.

There is also a photo of the Ghost and my amplifier iso cabinet (with a Brian May VOX VBM1 amplifier) and a generic Shure mic for recording that amp. The mic cable goes to the Ghost were I use the Ghost mic pre and EQ to record certain types of guitar work (I'm always moving those carpet squares around for various amounts of reflection in the box).

Photos: https://photos.app.goo.gl/ALCykx6J5wa7TVti8

 

[Gtelefon]

Hi mjk, thank you very much for your post, and for links which led me to a very interesting website of yours http://mjk.asia/ I am having a lot of fun to get acquainted with its super content.

 

[Blue Monster 65]

Interesting - sounds very workable. I put a bit of time in on a Ghost from while, too. Buddy of mine had one for a long time and you’re correct; the EQ is very nice! Very cool to see you’re using one.

Thanks for sharing!