Mixing - Again!

Discussion in 'Model 24' started by lennymac, Oct 13, 2019.

  1. lennymac

    lennymac New Member

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    Hi all - still loving this desk but have found another limitation.

    I have recorded a live set to SD which lasts an hour - I recorded it all as one ‘song’ on the SD card to save creating a new ‘song’ in between each track my band played - I did not want to be fiddling around with the desk all the time in between each track creating new ‘songs’.

    If I then want to mix an individual track say 20 mins into the set - I can find the start of the track, mix it from that point and the Model 24 will produce a stereo file of silence for 20 mins, the mixed song and then silence for the rest of the ‘song’ - so a wav file an hour in total with a 5 min mix at the 20 min mark.

    Is there any way to create a mix of a section of the ‘song’ without it rendering the entire length of the song?? I now have to put it into a DAW to edit out the silence - and not having to use a DAW is the thing that sold this to me!
  2. Arjan P

    Arjan P Well-Known Member

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    Doesn't the Model 24 use IN and OUT markers or such to define your 'edit slot', so to speak? Maybe they exist and you just left them at the beginning and end of the whole recording? Just thinking out loud here, I don't own one.
  3. lennymac

    lennymac New Member

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    Yeah - good idea. Maybe the punch in and out function works for that master mix too. I’ll try it!
  4. lennymac

    lennymac New Member

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    Nope - punch in/out doesn’t work for this. Not great Tascam. Can’t do an individual track mix from a live set recording.
  5. psymatix

    psymatix New Member

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    You can't punch in/out of the mix track ?
  6. lennymac

    lennymac New Member

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    Mix track is recording whenever you press record. Can’t use punch in/out to mix down a section of the song.
  7. Mark Richards

    Mark Richards Well-Known Member

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    Try this:
    TASCAM Hi-Res Editor
    https://tascam.com/us/product/hi-res_editor/download

    The Hi-Res Editor isn’t very fancy.
    ° It imports a .WAV file using simple Drag & Drop loading;
    ° Plays a .WAV file;
    ° Displays audio characteristics; waveform (adjustable); signal level; and overload level;
    ° Permits easy setting of In/Out points;
    ° Permits saving the entire file;
    ° Permits saving only the portion of the file between user selected In/Out Points
    ;
    ° Saves/Exports to various sample/bit rate combinations, with optional short auto-fade.

    In addition, once a file has been loaded, a second file can be joined instantly at the Out Point of the first file without needing to import the second file into the program, making it very easy to join entire songs or clips of songs together.
  8. lennymac

    lennymac New Member

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    I’ll download - thanks!
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  9. Mark Richards

    Mark Richards Well-Known Member

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    I don't own a Model-24, and so have no hands-on experience.

    The best I can do is speculate/guess based on what I've been reading in the owner manual.

    It seems that to mix a specific segment of a complete song with multiple segments (i.e. create a stereo file on Tracks 23/24 of a subset of the total song) requires:

    1. Playing the entire song all the way through, writing down the start and end locations (hours:minutes:seconds) of each segment of the total song file to be mixed as a separate stereo file.

    2. Setting the MTR switch ON for each channel (1 ~ 22) that has recorded content to be included in the mix (this selects the recorded tracks 1 ~22 on the SD card for playback), and pressing the "MAIN" button for each track to be mixed to send the signal to the MAIN MIX L/R bus.

    3. Assure that there are no active Inputs to avoid inadvertently adding any "live" signals to the mix.

    4. Turn OFF the REC Ready button for each track (1 ~22) with recorded material (i.e. press the REC button for each track to make them unlit to prevent over-writing the track).

    5. Press the MULTI JOG dial to enable the Direct LOCATE operation and turn the MULTI JOG dial to move to the starting location of the segment to be mixed.

    6. Press the master RECORD button to start recording the mix to the MAIN MIX L/R bus (i.e. to the stereo file on Tracks 23/24).

    7. At the end point location of the segment being mixed, press the STOP button to complete the recording of the segment's stereo file.

    8. At this point, it seems that the only way to preserve the individual segment that has been mixed is to copy the newly created segment stereo file to a computer and rename the file on the computer to reflect the individual segment that has been mixed.

    9. Steps 1 ~ 8 must be repeated for each of the individual segments to be mixed.

    The alternative is to mix the entire song at once with all its sub-sections to one large stereo .wav file, transfer that file to a computer, and then use a program like TASCAM's Hi-Res Editor to break out the individual segments into individual stereo .wav files.

    p.s. that manual really stinks. sheesh, what is wrong with TASCAM's technical writers!
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2019
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  10. lennymac

    lennymac New Member

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    Mark, thanks for your help with this. Looks like that is the best workaround - although I would like to be able to export small sections as individual tracks. By doing as suggested above you still export an audio file which is the length of the entire song.
    Mark Richards likes this.
  11. lennymac

    lennymac New Member

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    To clarify - I THINK you CAN punch in and out of a mix , but you cannot export a segment as a mix. It will export the whole file the entire length of the ‘song.
    -mjk- likes this.
  12. -mjk-

    -mjk- Moderator Staff Member

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    @Mark Richards as bizarre as this sounds for a console, there's no section about how to do a mix in the manual.

    The more I read about this Model 24, the more I wonder not only why did Tascam make it, but why would anyone buy it?

    Page 31: "Channels 1-12 and 13/14-19/20 can have an effect applied. Their signals are sent to the built-in effect by the FX bus. The return signal is returned to the MAIN MIX L/R and MONITOR OUT 1/2 buses."

    Does this mean channels 1 through 20 can have FX? Really weird wording.
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  13. -mjk-

    -mjk- Moderator Staff Member

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    That might be your issue. The manual does make mention of exporting the "stereo master" file. Does it not just record a stereo wav file that can be directly read by the computer? Or is it some proprietary format that requires one to export everything?
  14. Mark Richards

    Mark Richards Well-Known Member

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    mj, my sense is that the Model 24 has been designed essentially as a mixing console that captures live performances in multi-track and stereo formats. Apparently it does that well, but requires a DAW to complete the traditional mixing and mastering processes for the multi-track recording. It isn't meant to, and can't, function fully as a stand-alone production tool.
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2019
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  15. -mjk-

    -mjk- Moderator Staff Member

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    Mark, that is my take on it too. No internal track routing for one thing, so no bouncing without going to the outside world.

    What gets me is how poorly written the manual is! Some people have bought it thinking it was a control surface, because the USB section didn't actually tell them what can be done with it. For example, can you bring 22 tracks of DAW audio down the USB hose into the console and then send the 2-mix to a stereo track for mixdown in the DAW? Who knows?
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  16. Mark Richards

    Mark Richards Well-Known Member

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    I think, "yes", "maybe". But you wouldn't know by just reading the manual. You have to kind of piece it together based on various descriptions of the the knobs, buttons and switches. Yuck!

    Apologies lennymac for the hijack. Hope you can get things worked out.
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  17. -mjk-

    -mjk- Moderator Staff Member

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    Agreed, Mark.

    But, would you want to buy it just for the purpose of finding that out? When I bought the X32 I knew exactly what I was getting because the manual spelled it out clearly. There is (at this point in time) a definite lack of tutorial videos.
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  18. Mark Richards

    Mark Richards Well-Known Member

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    Ok, I see in the manual addendum that the files for the MAIN L/R BUS are proprietary mono on Tracks 23/24. The only way to get a usable stereo .wav file is to use the EXPORT function to combine the L/R mono files into a single stereo .wav file.

    The EXPORT function cranks out the entire length of the song regardless of the length of the portion recorded on Tracks 23/24.:(
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2019
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  19. -mjk-

    -mjk- Moderator Staff Member

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    That is just insane! They expect it to be used like a Portastudio, one song at a time.
    Arjan P likes this.