Model 24: Glowing compressor LEDs

[hmenderec]

First I want to thank everybody setting up this forum and contributing in helping other people get along with their devices.

After watching videos on YOUTUBE and reading in fora like this one, I was looking forward to purchase a Model 24.
In the English manual on page 21 you can read :

12 COMP knobs and indicators (1-12)
....
"When compression is activated, the COMP indicators light."

After switching on the first Model 24 I had, the compressor indicator light from track 3 already was glowing, although no connection has been made yet and the compressor knob being in OFF position.
Recording and listening for some time(about 1 hour), I recognized, that from 12 compressor indicators now 9 were glowing more or less bright. Compressor knobs were again in OFF position.
Turning the compressor knobs made the light disappear or disappear and glow again.

Lifting and turning the Model 24 I recognized something was falling inside the device
from the left to the right and backwards.
This was reason enough for me to give back the device and ask for the money.

Now I went all in all more then 200km, to get the second Model 24.
This time I was offered the footswitch for free and we were checking the Model 24 in the shop and let it run for about 10 minutes. No glowing compressor indicator LEDs. Wow. I was very happy.

At home I started recording and listening and 1-2 hours passed.
Somehow I didn't trust my eyes: all 12 compressor indicators were glowing, this means they were shining with different brightness.
This GLowing is different from the Shining, which can be seen when the threshold is reached.
I called the shop and we were discussing this strange "feature".

I have to decide now if I want to live with this not ordered feature or I want to give back this device too.

Now I am asking all Model 24, 16 and 12 owners:

Are some compressor indicators glowing too, although the compressor knob is in OFF position?
Is this "feature" OK for you?

Thank You for reading.

I have some more things to write but I want to stop now, otherwise this is getting
to long.

 

[-mjk-]

Is this glowing dynamic, i.e. program dependent, or changes with no audio playback?

 

[hmenderec]

@-mjk-

First I want to Thank You -mjk- for answering. After reading your impressing ideas to the question

What would you do (beer spill on Model 12)?
Discussion in 'Model 24/16/12' started by Josh68, Oct 26, 2023

I thought that you would be the right person to help me. Here you are.

The answers are YES and NO.

I am switching on the Model 24 and I am NOT touching it anymore for 1-2 hours.
Compressor knobs are in OFF Position.

Within 1-2 hours the compressor indicatorss are beginning to glow with different intensity.
No glowing immediately after switching on.

Do I have to live with this "feature" or should I return this second Model 24 to the shop too?

Thank You very much for your answer.

Alfred

 

[-mjk-]

I honestly don't know. But.... (we don't know for sure if this is the case) if the LEDs on the compressors are indeed reactive (that is, they change in intensity depending upon the action of the compressor), they might be reacting to the noise floor that creeps up after time. The reason that I say this is because in my own studio I sometimes have hardware inserted on channels (such as a tube EQ). When I look at the RTA (Real Time Analyzer) on the console the RTA is clear of any signal when the DAW is stopped. But.... very slowly some noise will show up on the RTA. It's something like -90 dB so it takes awhile for the auto-gain on the RTA to drop down low enough to see it.

I don't like making up Bullshido type answers, but without testing this is pure conjecture. So, let's say you turn the unit on and wait until the LEDs start glowing. What happens when you run audio through those channels? Do the LEDs respond to the audio? In the end this might be poor design but otherwise harmless behavior.

 

[hmenderec]

-mjk-: "In the end this might be poor design but otherwise harmless behavior."

@-mjk- Thank You very much for your answer.
Didn't I tell you you're the right man to help me(at least this is what I wanted to hear from somebody else).

"In the end this might be poor design..." : this is what I'm thinking.
"...but otherwise harmless behavior." : this is what TASCAM says.

Now I have to choose my words, not to get in trouble with TEAC/TASCAM.

I spoke with somebody from TASCAM. He told me, this "glowing" is already known because some(how many?) people already were contacting TASCAM and the "glowing" could be seen in other models of the ModelXX series too, but not in all devices.
(too bad, I forgot if he said in the whole series or only in Model XX and Model YY)

TASCAM: This "glowing" has something to do with the LEDs.
TASCAM could/would change the LEDs, but after some time this glowing is
appearing again.

My opinion is: this has nothing to do with the LEDs, it has something to do
with the "...poor design". Or are there "bad" green LEDs?
(somehow I remember years ago there was some trouble with green LEDs)

TASCAM continued (like -mjk- wrote):"... but otherwise harmless behavior."

They were checking the function of the compressors and came to the conclusion that everything is working fine.
I understood: those indicators should not glow!

I asked:"How am I able to check if the compressor is working correct? Should I put the compressor knob into 9 o'clock position to let it work as a limiter, like it was said in "THE" youtube video for the one knob compressor?"

TASCAM:"This one knob compressor is working as a limiter in 3 o'clock position.
If the compressor is working the sound is changing when you're turning the compressor
knob."

-mjk-: "...turn the unit on and wait until the LEDs start glowing. What happens when you run audio through those channels? Do the LEDs respond to the audio?"


Channel 2 is "winning the race": compressor LED is starting to glow after 6 min without any audio input.

Now I'm running audio through channel 2 while I'm turning the compressor knob.
I don't hear any change in sound, but the compressor LED is responding and shining
and the meter is passing the 12dB line on the meters screen.

Now I'm turning the compressor knob into 3 o'clock position: the compressor is working as a limiter and the meter is not passing the 12 dB line anymore.

Somehow this thing is working although I did not hear any change in sound. (my ears, bad headphones?)
Meanwhile all other LEDs are glowing too.

Conclusion:
This LEDs should not glow. The compressor is working as a limiter.
If the compressor is working as a compressor I'm not able to say/hear.

Is there anybody here who has an unit from the Model xx series?

Glowing or not glowing indicator lights?

Thank you for reading.

 

[-mjk-]

@hmenderec your frustration is certainly understandable. Some compressor designs are so good that it's hard to hear them working, but you can observe the effect it has by watching the levels. My gut feeling is that this is not one of those designs. You don't have to worry about getting into trouble with Tascam by honestly stating the issues on the forum.

So I think that Tascam has as much as admitted that the LEDs will glow and there isn't anything you can do about it. So, you'll be getting your "studio tan" faster than normal, looks like

 

[hmenderec]

@-mjk-
Thank You very much for your heart warming, touching words. Are you able to read thoughts? I didn't expect anything similar in the internet.

Today I got a call from the very friendly and supporting shopowner.
He reported that TASCAM as announced unpacked two Model 24 and let them run for some hours.
Both had those glowing LEDs.
Too bad, I still hoped they would send me a unit without this "feature",
specially because it's looking like nobody else has a Model XX with glowing LEDs.

I already announced to return this unit. Under time pressure I had to make a decision and I do not know if I would have get used to this "light effects" in some weeks.

This unit which I'm giving back has been stored two years in the shop. (shopowner: "The kids only like daws.")
Had this any effect on the electronic parts? Rubber is losing softener, are electronic parts getting old too, even if one is not using them?

Thank you.

 

[-mjk-]

After 2 years it could be called "new, old stock" but as long as it's not been running, or sitting out of the box (and pray not in the display window under the sun) for that length of time, all should be well. If it's still packed in the box from the factory it will have the bag and desiccant packs that will protect it from condensation issues. It's likely that the store environment is good for long-term storage, and besides, it does come with the full warranty. Perhaps you could get the store to agree to a longer warranty period given the time the unit was in stock.

If the other units do the same thing, then I don't see the point of an exchange. I'm not telling you what to do, I'm just saying if they are no different than why bother with the hassle unless you have a definite malfunction going on. If it records, plays back and does what it's supposed to do otherwise, the question remains: Can you make music with it?

Thank You very much for your heart warming, touching words. Are you able to read thoughts? I didn't expect anything similar in the internet.

In general, people get back what they put out there. The Tascam forums has some fantastic people who enjoy helping others. I'm just one of them. I have more time than most others so I may be a bit more prolific but that's all. The users of the Tascam Forums enjoy interacting with polite and considerate posters like you. But, truth be told, I'm just as human as the next person and sometimes I get replies that make me want to quit trying to help others. 2023 was a banner year with no less than 3 people getting banned and one of them even sending me racist DMs (he assumed that my ethnicity is Asian due to my location, and thus adjusted his racial prejudices accordingly). But, this is what I signed up for and I have even punished myself further by starting my own forum for another equipment brand, lol.

 

[Matt Workman]

I contacted Tascam about this years back. I have owned x5 Tascam Model 24's.... 1 out of 5 did this. Tascam pretty much said..... 'oh well'.