Model12 ...midi sync question?

Musicman666

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Model12
Is the model 12 able to midi sync lock with midi hardware such as as sequencers and drum machines so that I can jog backwards and forwards along the track without any drift...??
 
The website says:

"Standard MIDI in/out connectors allow connection with a wide range of keyboards, drum machines, controllers, and other sources that employ MIDI connectors. The Model 12 can also be used for synchronized operation of multi-track recorders and other external devices like drum machines."

https://tascam.com/us/product/model_12/feature
 
Yes this is what got me excited but here’s the thing, I bought the Tascam dp32 midi a few years ago and that was also supposed to midi lock as well but didn’t and tascam didn't bother to try and fix it with an upgrade ...so now I need confirmation before I pull the trigger on this model12...I spoke to my local music shop and they didn’t know either but they told me to try this forum as they would be able to confirm it...so here I am...

...perhaps there is an email address I could try?
 
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The key words are "synchronized operation". If it doesn't work as advertised, send it back.

FWIW I own a DP-32. It synchronizes perfectly with my drum machine and keyboard. The drum machine even chases when jogging.

When you say:

so that I can jog backwards and forwards along the track without any drift...??

Are you expecting to jog to a position and have instantaneous sync?

The Tascam Forums are not affiliated with Tascam and are privately operated. You should contact Tascam support directly.
 
...well yes instantaneous is a good description...say i am working on a song and i need to go into the middle of the track and work on one particular area ..say drop in a guitar part or edit the midi in the sequencer ...it would be good to have all the parts playing along in unison simultaneously so i can get a constant picture of what i'm doing...so if you are able to do that i would be most impressed.

...regarding the dp32 midi unit you have a very unique experience ...many on the facebook group of that machine have failed to get it working reliably..in fact its quite a common problem elsewhere on the net ...personally the most i could ever achieve was to have both starting together but only if i ran it from the beginning and the tascam was master... it wasn't ideal...if i remember correctly tascam did only one fix to address one flaw in the midi and then it was suddenly discontinued with a replacement model without midi!!... its quite a long time ago now but i doubt its been fixed.

..perhaps what you are getting is a start and stop on the drum machine but thats just a basic midi clock type operation ...what i need is the mmc level commands so it can really lock solid like a timecode....the dp32 actually said "mmc" in the menu...it just didn't do it.
 
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regarding the dp32 midi unit you have a very unique experience

The users on the Tascam Forums have a significantly different experience with the DP-32 MIDI than the FB group apparently, because many of use routinely and successfully use the machine to control MIDI operations.

perhaps what you are getting is a start and stop on the drum machine but thats just a basic midi clock type operation ...what i need is the mmc level commands so it can really lock solid like a timecode....the dp32 actually said "mmc" in the menu...it just didn't do it.

@Musicman666 You've made incorrect assumptions about what other people are doing with their machines. You didn't really read what I wrote above:

The drum machine even chases when jogging.

I have synced my DP-32 with Reaper, and that works too. Every single piece of gear in my studio is MIDI except my guitar amps. I have a MIDI hub and MIDI patching software. I can do anything I want with MIDI. The only problems I have ever encountered were operator issues where I failed to set things up properly.

I have even successfully used my DP-32 as a DAW controller for Sonar, via MIDI (I don't use it like that, I just wanted to see if it could be done). Since purchasing a used unit in 2018, I've used it to control my drum machine for recording drum tracks, and recording a single drum part at at time and they all line up perfectly. I also use it for arpeggio control on my KORG keyboard. My experience is not unique by any means.

But there is no such thing as instantaneous synchronization of anything. If you jog somewhere and press Play, it takes a few frames to get going. That's just how it is, even if you use SMPTE. And no synchronization system is perfect. It is what it is, and you have to engineer your recordings accordingly.
 
perhaps what you are getting is a start and stop on the drum machine but thats just a basic midi clock type operation ...what i need is the mmc level commands so it can really lock solid like a timecode
Just to clarify, MMC is MIDI Machine Control and offers transport control to allow stop/start/positioning. It does not keep things in sync to prevent drifting throughout a song. For that you need regular clock messages. These are either simple timing clocks, which are sent at precisely regular intervals so the receiver can keep count of passing time, or time code (MTC), which are regular messages containing the absolute time (as in SMPTE). I only have the newer DP machine without MIDI so can't advise on yours (I use an external sync box with my dp-32sd).
Update: the clock settings are under the SYNC item on the MIDI screen; MMC is a separate item.
 
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The users on the Tascam Forums have a significantly different experience with the DP-32 MIDI than the FB group apparently, because many of use routinely and successfully use the machine to control MIDI operations.



@Musicman666 You've made incorrect assumptions about what other people are doing with their machines. You didn't really read what I wrote above:



I have synced my DP-32 with Reaper, and that works too. Every single piece of gear in my studio is MIDI except my guitar amps. I have a MIDI hub and MIDI patching software. I can do anything I want with MIDI. The only problems I have ever encountered were operator issues where I failed to set things up properly.

I have even successfully used my DP-32 as a DAW controller for Sonar, via MIDI (I don't use it like that, I just wanted to see if it could be done). Since purchasing a used unit in 2018, I've used it to control my drum machine for recording drum tracks, and recording a single drum part at at time and they all line up perfectly. I also use it for arpeggio control on my KORG keyboard. My experience is not unique by any means.

But there is no such thing as instantaneous synchronization of anything. If you jog somewhere and press Play, it takes a few frames to get going. That's just how it is, even if you use SMPTE. And no synchronization system is perfect. It is what it is, and you have to engineer your recordings accordingly.
 
Just to clarify, MMC is MIDI Machine Control and offers transport control to allow stop/start/positioning. It does not keep things in sync to prevent drifting throughout a song. For that you need regular clock messages. These are either simple timing clocks, which are sent at precisely regular intervals so the receiver can keep count of passing time, or time code (MTC), which are regular messages containing the absolute time (as in SMPTE). I only have the newer DP machine without MIDI so can't advise on yours (I use an external sync box with my dp-32sd).
Update: the clock settings are under the SYNC item on the MIDI screen; MMC is a separate item.

Oh, well if the clock isn't set then, yes, all you're getting is transport control functions, not sync.

As I recall, if you stop the DP machine in the middle of a song, and press Play to resume, the slaved machines will be out of sync. One must move the jog wheel a few frames to re-sync things. Then the slave machines should start where the DP machine is currently set.
 
@Musicman666 yes, please do give us a report back! That kind of direct user feedback is gold. Your participation is helping others. Thank you.
 
Hi everyone, I’ve recently joined the forum and have been reading up on what (hopefully), will be a new purchase for me… I’m hoping I’m in the right place to share advice and tips!

I’m in the market for a multi track recorder and have my eyes set on the Model 12, mostly because of its MIDI ability.

Reading through some of the posts here (and also the online owner’s manual), this thread seemed like a place to start with questions on MIDI sync.

I’m trying to establish if the Model 12 handles synced overdubs. That’s because I want the ability to record a track, and then go back after the fact, to record other layers on top, in sync with the original recording, and maybe do that a few times, layering up the sounds.

I’m running a hardware setup of synths, sequencers and drum machines, linked together with midi.

So far, I’ve recorded my tracks from the output of my Yamaha MG10XU mixer to a Tascam DR-40 field recorder. The output from the mixer is just a simple L and R stereo track. (This mixer will also will also connect to a computer by its USB output, but again, that’s only a single stereo track and I’d prefer to be DAWless as much as I can).

My Elektron Digitone is my master device, sequencing and transmitting clock, to a Kenton Thru 5 splitter, which then ‘feeds’ 5 other synths.

They all stay in time, it works well and their respective audio outputs plug into my Yamaha mixer, then onto the little Tascam recorder.

The downside, is that any recording I make is done in one take, with no bum notes or mistakes. Plus, I’d like the ability to layer up the sounds and sequences and just have more control of the separate instruments with a dedicated track for each.

From what I’ve read, the Model 12 can have its tempo set within its settings and it can be the master device, but not slave to an incoming MIDI signal?

Can anyone confirm if I’m understanding this device correctly and if I could get the Model 12 to do what I’d like? I think it’s possible, but I’ve yet to see a YouTube video or similar, of someone using it in the way I want to.

If any fellow members are able offer some advice and even a bit of common sense, it’d be really appreciated. If you could begin with thinking I know nothing, then that would be brilliant!

Thanks a lot,

Lozza
 
Could the Model 12 trigger functions of a Model 24 via MTC? i.e The Model 12 is the master and the model 24 would be the slave? Neither manual says it can so I guess that's my answer.
 
If you can find a MIDI implementation table, that would tell you what MIDI functions are supported.

Edit: MTC is MIDI Time Code and is exactly what it says, which is the timing code for keeping machines synchronized. MMC is MIDI Machine Control and that is what will start and stop the transport on the linked machine. You will need to enable both MTC and MMC on each machine.

Edit: I took a look at the Model 24 user manual, and MMC is not mentioned. The Model 24 does MTC as master only, so it looks like the answer to your question is "no". The Model 24 apparently does not receive anything from MIDI. Unfortunate.
 
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Thanks for the reply, MJK. I was hoping that wasn't the case, but figured it most likely was. C'est le vie.
 
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