Motu2408 - Got input, but no output

[snafu]

Hey everyone,

it seems, recently I'm putting up a lot of old stuff, but - that's all I got (an old man with lots of old stuff).
I got a Motu2408 mkIII here in my rack, with the analog i/os running straight into my trusty patchbay. The Motu is connected via TDIF to my DM.

Now, I do get input - but no output. Well, that's not quiet right, but let me explain:
1. Since the Motu is hooked up via TDIF, all 8 TDIF inputs are assigned to the last eight inputs of my IF-FW/DM mkII. So in my DM-Routing you will find the following under the OUTPUT SLOT tab:

Terminal select: Slot1 Trk 25 -32
Input Bypass: TDIF1
Output Select:
1 TDIF1 Trk1
2 TDIF1 Trk2
... and so on.

This way, I get access to the inputs from my siderack.

2.Now I want to route a signal out of the DAW, and fetch it at the physical outputs of the Motu unit. Maybe it is important to know that I do not own the pcie-card. It's just connected via TDIF.
Now, I'll be damned, if TDIF isn't bi-directional, but I'm sure it's eight channels in, eight channels out, right?

As expected, I can hear a guitar plugged in at input 1 on output 1. But what, if I want to route DAW-signals out of the Motu?

Here's what I did:
Under above mentioned Routing screen on the DM, I hit the second tab, just labeled OUTPUT.

Terminal select: TDIF1
Input Bypass: Slot 1
Output Select:
1 Slot 1 Trk9
2 Slot1 Trk10
... and so on.

Well, if I'm not completely mistaken, I should receive any signal from the DAW, which is routed to the IF-FW/DM outputs 9 and 10, shouldn't I?

I got the Motu back a long time ago, and as I said: there is no pcie-card involved, just TDIF connection. Any mistakes on my behalf?

Looking forward for your input on this,
best regards
snafu

 

[Rockum]

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. Without the PCIe card, the 2408 does conversion 1 way. You choose the source or sources for it to convert. I am a little sketchy on the details but basically it will do...

• 1 ADAT banks to all 3 TDIF banks (and 1 Analog bank too I think)
• 3 ADAT banks to the 3 corresponding TDIF banks (I think bank 3 is duplicated in Analog bank too)
• 1 ADAT bank to 1 Analog bank
• 1 TDIF bank to all 3 ADAT banks (and 1 Analog bank too I think)
• 3 TDIF banks to corresponding ADAT banks (I think Bank 3 is also duplicated in Analog bank too)
• 1 TDIF bank to 1 Analog bank
• 1 Analog Bank to ADAT and (or?) TDIF (also not sure if it is duplicated on all banks)

Other solutions...

• Get the PCIe and put it in a computer to route two way.
• Buy a cheap 2408 mark I for the outs and build the TDIF splitters I posted in another thread (not that expensive but a pain).
• Buy a Tascam IF-TAD to do 2 way TDIF to ADAT conversion. Buy another device to do the ADAT to analog (a second 2408 or Behringer ADA8000.)

• Not sure but if the mk3 is compatible with the old PCI cards, they are cheaper, but then you need an older computer too.

 

[snafu]

Hi Rockum,

thanks for your reply.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

It's never good, if a reply starts like that

Unfortunately I don't think, I have enough space in my computer to install another pci or pcie card - indeed, afaik I have no pci-slots; pcie only.

OK, so the downside to this is, that I can use the outputs only for monitoring the input/duplicating signals.
On the other hand, I can route signals to the dedicated outputs via patchbay, so at least the siderack outputs are not dead.

I have two Tascam IF-DA8, so there's my output-solution. I am not sure, if I want to further investigate into the Motu - it's a good device, but I'm not sure, if I want to go the extra way or look for a replacement maybe.

Special thanks for your input on other solutions - maybe that's more like it.

greetings
snafu

 

[snafu]

Addendum: hey Rockum, it's me again.

I just downloaded the manual for the 424-pcie-card, which is also basically a manual for the 2408 mk3. I might be wrong, but it seems to indicate on p. 9 that in standalone mode it should be possible to have 8 i/o per each bank. You're absolutely 100% sure there's no i/o for this setup? Sorry for asking this stupid question. I've been asking for more i/o's a few years ago, and if I recall correctly, there are some other users as well using this configuration with the option for inputs and outputs. I might be terribly mistaken, as I just flew over the manual, but maybe there's some hope left

 

[snafu]

So, I went back to an old thread I started nearly five years ago:
https://www.tascamforums.com/threads/alternative-for-motu-2408-extra-i-o.3331/page-2?_params=Array

See cmaffia (post 12), GravityJim (post 19), wm_b (post 32) - it totally seems do-able. Doesn't it?

Well, about TDIF - maybe here's the mistake I made: either, if TDIF1 has 8 channels input assigned, can't handle these for output. If so, in theory, I should be able to just connect another TDIF-cable to Bank B and have TDIF2 on the DM for handling the outputs.

Or there is a mistake in the internal routing I described above.

Or it just is impossible, to have the Motu 2408 Mk3 connected only via TDIF and use it for 8 analog inputs, and get signals out of the pc to it's 8 analog outputs.

Any knowledge on this is very welcome.
cheers
snafu

 

[Rockum]

My understanding is that you choose the source on the front panel.

Your choices are

Analog
SPDIF
ADAT
• A
• B
• C
• ABC
TDIF
• A
• B
• C
• ABC

There's no ability to select two sources. You can plug everything in and select IN or OUT with a few button pushes but it is not both ways simultaneously. Sorry to bear bad news.

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/low-end-theory/324145-motu-2408-mk2-standalone.html

http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=38355

Note the Title... AD OR DA
https://motu.com/techsupport/techno...nterface-as-a-standalone-a-d-or-d-a-converter

I am pretty sure as in 90% sure. If I am wrong, please let me know, I'll be glad because I tried and failed to do the same thing.

 

[snafu]

There's no ability to select two sources.

That's fine by me - I only need ONE source at any given time.

See, I want to be able to send signals into the DM3200 via TDIF without using the outputs. But then I want to be able to send signals out of the DM3200 via TDIF that I can grasp at the analog outputs of the Motu, without using the inputs. So it's always either in or out.

Unfortunatelly, I don't seem to get any output at all. Are my settings (s. above) for the DM correct?
And if so: what would I have to do on the Motu-side to get any output?

Thanks, for sticking with me on this![/quote]

 

[Rockum]

You may want to try this...

Flip through the sources til you select TDIF as the source with banks A B and C illuminated. Then plug the physical TDIF connector into each of the three banks on the back, testing for output on each one. Also make sure your clock is in sync. I don't recall you mentioning how you had it clocked. Good luck.

 

[snafu]

I don't recall you mentioning how you had it clocked. Good luck.

Thank you, Rockum. Well, actually I haven't established a clock connection yet. I have a BNC cable connected to the DM, but until now its running in a dead end (aka it is not connected to anything). Clock on the motu is set to self (DIG I think? - gotta check this later this evening).

Unfortunately I have no termination plug - I am not sure if one is needed for the MOTU, but currently I can only connect a BNC to the MOTU and that's about it - I can't manipulate the switch on the rear of the DM atm. It's still in default position. The rear of the DM is behind the desk, and unaccessible (therefore all those cables plugged in nearly every jack available on the rear...). So I could connect the BNC, but since I got my analog signals into the DM with ease, I never actually thought of connecting the BNC.

 

[snafu]

Oh man - this is so frustrating!
I can get analog signals into the Dm - but not out of it! I think I'll give up - I don't know how other folks got signals out of their devices, but somehow it's not working for me.

I've been through all the procedures (TDIF connected to other banks, different settings on the Motu), but unfortunately all I got was some nasty pink noise, and some pumping pink noise respectively. But no audio.

My BNC cable is connected to the BNC out/through on the rear side of the DM, with that switch right next to it positioned in the default position (I think it's middle position or left). The BNC runs then into the BNC input of the Motu.

On the Routing-screen on the DM under OUTPUT I set the OUTPUT SELECT for TDIF1 to Slot1_25 to Slot1_32 (8channels total). In my DAW I chose IF-FWDM 25 as output. Pink noise.

I'm done here - what am I supposed to do?

 

[wm_b]

Once I started using the 2408 as a format converter in standalone mode I absolutely had to have the BNC cable connected for it to work. It's been a very long time since that was part of my system but I never got the 2408 to function like the manual described in standalone mode. I only used it for converting 2 stereo channels of SMUX to TDIF, I think. It was for input only from my Apogee AD16x. I eventually upgraded to a DM4800 and got another AES card to finally get rid of the 2408. Good riddance. It always worked but required that I press that mode button 5 times or something every time I turned on.

I never attempted to do any round trip audio back out of the 2408 in standalone mode. If a 2408 ever comes back into my life it will be too soon.

 

[snafu]

Motu2408 is no more an option for me. Even with ADAT it doesn't work - at least not in stand-alone. Since there is absolutely no chance for me to install another PCIe-card to my system, the Motu and I will have to part ways.

 

[Rockum]

Sorry you weren't able to get it working. My guess is that the pumping white noise you heard is your audio with no clock sync. If you want to try to trouble shoot it via Skype, let me know.

 

[snafu]

[S O L V E D]

Oh man! Finally, after nearly two weeks of trying - I've come to an solution! And it works! big shoutout and thank you to Rockum, who spend a lot of time to answer my questions. Ultimately, the solution was a part of the Dm3200 that bothered me for a while - but first things first!

1. Can you run a Motu 2408 mkIII with the Tascam DM3200 without (!) the pcie-card?
Most definitively: you can! But as you will see, there are strange things going on...

2. Should I chose TDIF or ADAT?
I think, both will work, but I only tested TDIF so far. However, I will also test ADAT, and post my foundings here. For the time being, this is how it works with TDIF.

EDIT: (21.01.2020)
3. How's that working with ADAT?
Plain and simple: Plug your ADAT output of your DM3200 with aTOsLink-cable to the ADAT input of the Motu, get your ADAT input on the DM plugged into the ADAT output of the Motu. No BNC cable needed.
Head over to your routing window on the DM: make sure, your eight ADAT inputs serve as outputs for eight channels of your firewire card, so that anything that goes into the Motu, comes out of your dedicated fw-channels.
On the tab OUTPUT SELECT assign eight fw-inputs to the output of the ADAT - this way, you can send signals to the outputs of the Motu.

Now set your Motu - you can chose pretty much anything that goes with ADAT,
Set Source to "Anlg", Clock to "Int" and preferably the same sample rate as within your DM.

However: to get sound out of your DAW, and grap it at the Motu's outputs, you'll have to set Source on your Motu unit to ADAT and the desired bank (or ABC).

WARNING: Turn off ALL your ADAT inputs on your DAW - you could potentially damage your listening devices, because of feedback. I recommend to mute all of your ADAT-inputs and cut them off from monitoring, while working with output.

And here's how it works with TDIF:

A. You N E E D wordclock connection (BNC cable).
This is the first thing that's odd to me: you can connect your Motu-unti with the DM via TDIF without BNC and totally have analog input! Yep, this works just fine, and if that's all you need - you're welcome.
However, if you want to make use of the analog outputs, you absolutely need a wordclock connection! I went from the clock output of the DM straight into the wordclock input of the Motu (in my case: Bank B).

Make sure, your DM meets the following pre-conditions:
- 44.1k or 48k sample rate
- clock set to Internal (see Project-->Clock)

On the Motu-side:
- make sure, your clock is set to "Wrd" at the same sample rate you set in the Dm (in my case: 44.1k).
- choose TDIF and all banks (ABC) as source

If that's all you do so far, you might end up with: nothing. Or maybe just pink noise. Or pumping pink noise. Or a pumping hum.
In any of these cases:

B. Check the switch on the rear of the DM!
Oh boy - had I known before that this itchy little switch was of such importance! Now, to make a long story short: set the switch all the way to the right (if you're on the back of the DM, facing the rear side) --> it's the direction where your insert slots for any extension card are. You'll find that switch to the left side from the TDIF A connector.

Do not try to make sense of the readings. Or the manual which is not very helpful on this switch. Maybe I'm smitten by blindness, but I can't make any sense out of the inscriptions above/below the switch.
If my interpretation is correct, the switch is now in position IN/OUT, implying, that both (clock Out and clock In) are active.

I was in the middle position where it reads IN = off, Out. I don't know why, but this makes far more sense for me - but obviously DOES NOT WORK! I mean, if I want to just have clock going out (and since no BNC is connected to my clock IN on the DM either) everything was screaming for this position. But that's just not the position you want...

Anyway - this is how it works! And it works like a charm! Stranger even: it also works, when said switch is all the way to the left (THRU): but I must add, that after a while, nasty drop outs occur in this particular position - so DON'T use it. By it's readings it shouldn't work anyway...

Hope it's helpful to someone else. Now I can learn to like my Motu again

cheers
snafu

 

[Arjan P]

Reading this topic, I remembered we had a discussion about word clock before. Should have remembered sooner, since also the switch was discussed:
https://www.tascamforums.com/threads/please-demystify-wordclock.7173/

 

[snafu]

OMG - the shame...the shame...

I can remember that one - and how hard it was for me to wrap my head around this^^ As you can see in one of my earlier posts, I remembered about having asked something like this - but referred to the wrong thread. In my naivity I thought: "How hard can it be, to figure it out, how this switch works?". Should have know...

I don't want to shift the blame but: I really wished, they would have included just a few lines more in the manual, just a tiny bit. I'm still astonished, as to how you figured these things out for yourselfes - to whom did you sell your soul, Arjan

 

[Arjan P]

Haha, sell my soul - love it! But you're right, the manual is not too clear on this. Glad you got it working though.

BTW, I see the link I provided is for a reply, I'll edit it to get to the topic.