My Reverb/Delay

[Doodle46]

Ref. Tascam DP-32sd:
Using internal effects, I still haven’t learned how to put Reverb & Delay together on my vocal recordings. Frustrating!
I also want to know why I can hear plenty of Reverb on mic check, and while recording vocal, but I hear no effects on the playback.

 

[David Porter]

I want to be careful here because I'm not in front of my machine or looking at the block diagram.

By what you're saying I'm going to guess that you're using the "send" effect. It's possible that you've got the effect on and are hearing it when monitoring and even recording. But the effect isn't being "printed" on the recording because in order to do that you need to send (or patch) the signal from the send out(s) on the back of the machine to a new unused input using a cable - and then record that. The good thing about this method is that you (can) always have the original dry track - in case something doesn't turn out as desired. When you "print" effects the first time (no matter what the method) - you're stuck with the effect married to the performance data.

Keep in mind that only one "send" effect can be used at a time. So to get a reverb AND delay on the recorded track using only the send effect - you would have to do the above process twice - add reverb - then rerecord that track with the "send" delay effect. But there ARE other more simple ways to get roughly the same result... such as using the delay effect in the "guitar insert" effect block and then adding the reverb using the send effect. Using the internal send effect and an external effect device is another possibility. For instance - I once sent an already recorded performance through the send effect - adding reverb there - then routed that out of the machine using a cable... to a Boss digital delay (guitar pedal effect) - cabled that back to an open unused input and recorded that. Voila... reverb and delay on the performance. And I still had the "un-effected" original performance.

 

[Doodle46]

More simple would be better, but that is definitely interesting, JRC. Seems like I remember Phil covering this in his tutorials, but I was never able to grasp it. I will revisit his tutorial about effects.
My brain works a certain way, and if something is not explained that way, then I just don’t get it. My early schooling was pure hell! Thank you for your help.

 

[David Porter]

To be clear... the effects options on these machines are not intuitive. They are easily the most difficult things to master. Everyone struggles with this at first. I still have to concentrate and revisit the block diagram or Phil's videos occasionally.... And I have a pretty good handle on it.

That's why there is a whole sticky thread at the top of this forum on this one subject. ; - )

Before writing all of that I probably should have just asked... which effects option are you using for reverb and delay? - there only two options... either guitar insert effects or send effects. Can you say?

 

[mariusvideo]

The solution multiple bouncing of the track you that want to edit with more than one effect.

You can't apply 2 effects of the EFFECT section at the same time, to obtain a track with two effects you have to bounce in another track with applyng the first effect, for example a Reverb, the reverb is recorded on this bounced track, after you have to chose the new EFFECT, a delay for example, and you have to rebounce this new track or another new track, the delay will be recorded. This create effected tracks but you can undo to modifiy them, if you want to change the sounds you have to do bounce from the beginning, starting from the first track.

Remember to rebounce to one single track all these new effected recordings when you're happy about the result and to switch off the effects on this last track obtained if you don't want to apply any other effect.

 

[David Porter]

Yes - of course! Or bounce instead of routing out and then back in.

Jimi Ray <---- (embarrased).

 

[Doodle46]

JRC... I am using the send effects for vocals, but I’ll be honest. The effects block on this unit is very confusing to me. Phil’s block diagrams are really good, and if I had another brain, I’m sure they would make more sense to me. I understand some of how it works, but it doesn’t help me in practical use. Phil’s vocal explanations, while on the machine, work better for me. Thank God he made videos!

 

[Doodle46]

Mariusvideo! You just reminded me of why I asked about re-bouncing in my “Bounce to Bounce” post! I actually already thought of your way of doing that with Reverb/Delay, but my mind did not follow-thru with the process. I was also leary of experimenting with re-bouncing, as I have had a lot of trouble with SD Cards that don’t like some of my methods. I’m working on that tho. Also Phil’s Tutorial 9, which covered re-bouncing, had not sunk-in at that point.

 

[Doodle46]

• Using my DP32’s onboard send effects, let’s see if I understand this correctly. For Reverb & Delay on my song’s vocal track, this is what I will do.
Please tell me, if I’m wrong.
(For this scenario I will call the tracks 1, 2, & 3)
1. Set desired Reverb effect for vocal track 1.
2. Sing song (with Reverb) on vocal track 1.
3. Bounce vocal track 1 to nominated track 2.
4. Add Delay to track 2. ???
5. Bounce track 2 to nominated track 3.
6. Track 3 now has Reverb & Delay.
• For now, this is my best shot, but I can’t help feeling like I missed something!
• It’s #4 that puzzles me. How do I add Delay to track 2, so that it will bounce with track 2?

 

[Mark Richards]

Try this instead:
Record vocal to track 1 dry.
Set track 1 send 1 to pre 127/127 (or as needed)
Chose desired effect
Set effect out level as needed
Set track 1 fader all the way down
Bounce track 1 to track 2
Track 2 will be wet (pure effect)
Repeat with second effect to track 3
Result:
Track 1 dry
Track 2 effect 1 wet
Track 3 effect 2 wet
Complete freedom to re-do/change prior to and to blend on mixdown

If an effect outputs in stereo, bounce to a stereo track instead.

 

[Doodle46]

OOOH!!! So, after lowering the fader way down, I actually record the effect! That’s what had me going. Will the machine hear the effect with the fader down?

 

[Doodle46]

Thanks for your help, Mark. That makes sense to me.

 

[Doodle46]

In the final process (before mastering) I would prefer bouncing all of my tracks to one mono track. However, I think I heard Phil say that, if this is done, all of the stereo tracks will become mono tracks. Did I understand this correctly?

 

[Mark Richards]

"...will the machine hear the effect..."

The track 1 fader feeds the stereo bus, so you won't hear the dry vocal until the bounce is done.

If you want to hear the effect as you record track 1 dry, I think this might work: in the mixer screen use the vocal input send 1 to route the input to the effect. The effect goes to the stereo bus and bypasses the recorder. I think you could also set the vocal input to the stereo bus, turn down the track 1 fader, and monitor the vocal only through the stereo bus (i.e. use the inputs/stereo bus as a cue system).

 

[Doodle46]

Okay, Mark. I might study on it more and attempt that. Although, I have to admit that the water at this point is getting a little deep for me. I wish Tascam would have made the DP24/32sd easier to use. In some ways, I miss my neo2488.

 

[David Porter]

Keep after it sir. It'll get easier. After owning two different Roland vs series recorders this Tascam is a breeze compared to those

 

[Doodle46]

Thanks for the encouragement, JRC. If nothing else, I am persistent.

 

[mariusvideo]

One solution is to use an external multieffect and come in the tascam with the sound/effects you like, I make in this way with electric guitar, I use my own multieffect

Think to bouncing like audio software PC when apply the effect to the track, the only difference is that on the software PC you click Apply, in Tascam you have to bounce and repeat bouncing with other effect to obtain the final track you want.

 

[Doodle46]

Thank you for your input, mariusvideo. I have actually gone the external effects route, and I will probably go back to it ASAP. I have some pretty good low-tech effects all set-up, but I can be stubborn. If I pay good money for a machine with onboard effects, I want them to work, and I want to know how to use them.

 

[Doodle46]

Partly because of the reinforcement of mariusvideo’s comment, but mostly from my personal headaches with this machine’s Internal Effects, I have made the decision to use External Effects for vocals.
Can someone give me a “step-by-step” example of how to connect (and use) External Effects with the Tascam DP-32sd? Please do not assume that I know anything about anything.