New to Tascam and the DM-3200, any tips or things I need to know?

[Kurt Vandekerkhof]

Hello Tascam users!

I've just plunged into the world of Tascam and got myself a DM-3200 mixing desk together with the Firewire card.

I make mainly electronic music and have been mixing in the box for so long.
But I needed more inputs, easier patching all in and outputs, because my collection of real hardware instruments was growing and wanted a desk that could patch ins and outs easily, control my DAW and digitally interface with my DAW for hands on mixing and all this without breaking the bank.

I'm also moving my studio to a new building, so haven't been really able to fully use the DM-3200 yet, but tried it with headphones and my first fears of the horrid operating system don't seem to be so bad.
It's looking for things in the beginning but haven't opened the manual yet. I always try starting out to see how far I get with intuition. So far Tascam has done a good job I guess.

My main concerns so far are if I made the right decision in choosing this desk?
I've been comparing the DM-3200 with the Yamaha 01v, Presonus 24.4.2AI, Behringer X32 Compact and the Allen & Heath QU-24. But on paper the DM-3200 seems to be the best option, and am still wondering how this can be? Since this desk is almost 10 years old?

The Yamaha seemed to be a little bit more complex in OS and didn't have such an easy overview as the DM-3200 with the rotary encoders showing all the information that it can.
The Presonus, I quickly ruled out because of the not motorized faders.
The Behringer is also a great product on paper, but I was afraid of the Behringer brand, and the store says the Behringer is more a Live desk then a studio solution.
The Allen & Heath QU-24 was a great desk, and liked it a lot. Also more towards live use. But the interface of this desk is really fun to use. And it has the option for remote controlling it through the iPad app. But this desk is not expendable in any way.

So in the end I went with the DM-3200 and am hoping this is a choice I won't regret. Seeing that these desk come by a lot on second hand forums, and people complaining about the screens, and mixed opinions about the quality of the A/D, the PreAmps, the EQ, the compressor and effects.
But seeing that I use a lot of analog gear as well, that is so noisy on it's own, I see no reason to be buying the most expensive Apogee convertors so that I can capture those noise levels at a much better quality. So I can live with "not so great" A/D if this would be the case.

Only thing I discovered so far, is that there is an audible high pitch tone in the signal, everytime the desk needs to calculate. If faders are moving particularly.
I found another thread about this, and that this is due to the Touch Sensitive faders, but that this signal goes away if you disable this feature. Need to test this.

Are there any other things that I will start to notice, or that I should know?
Any other electronic musicians using this desk?

 

[captdan]

DM-3200 seems to be the best option, and am still wondering how this can be? Since this desk is almost 10 years old?

I'm still wondering how a Sony Oxford can be any good because it's older than that. SSL boards are probably obsolete too - especially the mid 90s offerings. Amek? Fawgetabout it. Anything 25 plus years old can't be any good. Don't get me started on all the discontinued Digi/Avid gear - especially the Command D, ubiquitous in hundreds of facilities world wide. Yamaha's O2r96 is even older; but don't tell that to all the pros relying on them - day in, day out.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with the DM's converters; they're among the best Akai chips available in 2005, and with few exceptions, remain at the top of the heap in their range today. The preamps are stellar as well; but maybe not so wonderful for low power dynamic and ribbon mikes on quiet sources. That's what outboard is for.

Anyway, use the DM for awhile. If you're not happy with the results, there are many, many other options out there to try. But do yourself a favor: before pronouncing judgement on the mixer, be sure the operator isn't the weak part of the chain. After all, if that's true, even Uli's X32 won't be worth much either.

CaptDan

 

[Kurt Vandekerkhof]

Hey CaptDan,

Don´t get me wrong, I love my synths from the 70´s and 80´s.
So I don´t mind a certain age on my gear. It´s just that digital desks are more seen as computers without any sound or spirit, and the speed and performance of chips develop really fast.
That´s why I was surprised that there still aren´t other more performant options available.

And the old desks really have their own sound, and are loved for that, not?
And pricewise you can´t compare them either

 

[captdan]

Seen by whom? Aspiring engineers still trying to figure out the basics - like gain staging, mic placement? And what about room acoustics? Do these opinions derive from those who're listening in less than stellar environments? How about EQ? Additive analog EQ doesn't equate in the digital world where - often - frequencies are attenuated, not boosted. Different mindset and approach.

I'm not dissing analog; I started in it. I produced, arranged, and played on many commercial products - done with analog boards onto 24 track tape flying at 30ips. Stuff sounded great. But, every so often I pull some of that material out and listen with my 2014 ears. Uh............I wouldn't go back. Not now. The clarity of well tracked and mixed digital beats noisy analog in my book. And if I want to mangle my mixes with 7th and 9th order harmonics, I can do that with DSP. It's a choice I can make without benefit of a technically challenged medium that - I'm sure - wouldn't have ever existed had digital been feasible in 1920.

But this discussion is a can of worms; some people will agree, many more will not. Same goes for musical taste as well. Genres I like might make other people squirm.

Makes the world go round.

PS: Just so you don't think I'm a complete codger, I've got a hefty vinyl collection; several hundred 45s and a 1948 jukebox I restored to play them. I LOVE that 'warm, scratchy, cloudy, wooly/bassy vibe! Brings back fond, nostalgic memories of an earlier, messier time.

CaptDan

 

[Arjan P]

Only thing I discovered so far, is that there is an audible high pitch tone in the signal, everytime the desk needs to calculate. If faders are moving particularly.

The high pitch tone you hear is not in the signal, but created by the fader being touched. It's a minor thing that I personally don't notice anymore.

Then you already mentioned the bad LCD screens, and yes, that has happened to many DM owners - myself included. You could be lucky and not see it happen, but if you do it usually starts with a single blue horizontal line in the screen, followed slowly by more and more. Other than that, this board is perfect!

 

[AudioWave]

Other than that, this board is perfect!

Now, now, let's not get carried away. That's a pretty strong statement that I would have to disagree with.

 

[captdan]

To Kurt (OP):

I think we got off to a weird start, going down theoretical paths.

Instead, let me suggest to you that this forum exists primarily to assist DM users - old and new. Although the desk's manual(s) is/are fine for documentation and reference, they lack substantially in some basic, communicative areas. We, then, try to fill in those gaps.

So you owe it to yourself to jump in and start using the mixer. Get dirty, confused and dismayed. Then, after an ale or two, come back to this forum and do some word searches: 'Routing" 'Wordclock' 'Routing some more' 'How do I use the Auxes', etc etc....whatever question is pertinent to you. If you don't find an answer, you know who to ask. This is a very knowledgeable, friendly group. The goal is to get you creating sounds, records, voice overs - post production; hobby recording, etc etc. This mixer can be a big help in that direction. Or, perhaps, it may not suit some specific objective or limitation in your workflow. Your call.

Also, check out Bing/Google/Ask for 'DM3200;Electronic Musicians; etc etc' to see if there are specific areas that may not be addressed on this forum.

CaptDan

 

[Gravity Jim]

As a relatively new user, the first thing I think you need to understand about the DM series is that the routing seems daunting because you can route virtually anything to anything else. Any input to any fader, buss, aux, any channel to any output... you can make the board do anything. All you have to do is figure out what you want the board to do.

The DM was certainly the best option for me. Digital consoles are a narrow category, and there just hasn't been all that much development... that's why a 10 year old console can still beat the pants off all the others you mentioned. The only console I found that was equal or better was the SSL Matrix, and there's no comparison on price-to-performance.

 

[Arjan P]

Other than that, this board is perfect!

Now, now, let's not get carried away. That's a pretty strong statement that I would have to disagree with.

You're very welcome to disagree! I didn't say it's perfect for all of us

 

[Drumstruck]

Welcome Kurt - don't despair - I think you made the best choice out of those options. As mentioned above, the routing particularly in the DM is extraordinary.

imo:
- the DM convertors are very good (they're the last thing that worries me about the DM)
- the pres are quite clean and very usable (there's some noise from about 80% gain upwards)
- the EQs are also very usable and quite uncoloured (perhaps lacking in some character)
- the dynamics are ok

I happen to like vintage outboard and the "colour" it adds and can't obtain that sound with digital emulators (today, but they are improving).

 

[jamsire]

I love my DM4800. Greatest recording gear I've had the honor of purchasing. It has brought me great music, great ideas, and introduced me to some great people on this forum as well as allowing me to help others make music. Good stuff.

 

[Kurt Vandekerkhof]

To CaptDan: I think I've Googled/Binged every possible page there is about the DM-3200 (and the 4800) but most of the time I end up with the same Press Announcement from Tascam. YouTube also seems limited on the Tascam DM series. Perhaps in 2005 when the desk came out, internet sharing of everything wasn't as big as it is nowadays. But I'm sure I'll get there with the desk, and otherwise I'll try my luck here.

To Audiowave: what isn't perfect on the desk? Is it just minor things or way of working with it? I know that it's all personal as well, seeing not everyone has the same workflow or needs from a desk.

One issue I'm having right now is that I can't seem to get the TimeCode to display on the desk? Not from Ableton Live, not from Logic X.
Must be something I'm doing wrong or missing. Need to look further into this before I need some more help from this forum.

 

[Kurt Vandekerkhof]

At Gravity Jim: that SSL Matrix does indeed look like a really good option. But the price however makes this one out of my league.
Finding this picture http://www.solid-state-logic.com/resources/gallery/Matrix/Matrix_Studi-Oh_large.jpg kind of reassured me that the Tascam must not be too bad.

 

[Gravity Jim]

Yep, I would have put a leather strap between my teeth and bought a Matrix if I hadn't found the Tascam. Yes, it seemed impossible that you could get this much function for the price. No, it's not an SSL. But my rule of thumb is:

"Find the product you would buy if money was no object. Then find (if it exists) the product that offers 90% of the functionality and quality for less than half the price. Then buy that one."

That's a paraphrase of the "90/50 rule" I proposed in a Keyboard column back in the day. The result is owning great gear that does exactly what you want and watching it pay for itself faster. In the case of the DM series, MUCH faster.

 

[captdan]

I think I've Googled/Binged every possible page there is about the DM-3200 (and the 4800) but most of the time I end up with the same Press Announcement from Tascam.

You mean the ubiquitous "More of everything that made the DM24 a pedigreed studio workhorse" ..? Yeah, that release pops up more times on the interweb than a recidivist thief appears in front of a judge.

But there are also many, many positive testimonials and examples of the DMixers effectively utilized in everything from project studios to audio post on prime time network TV shows. Here's a 2011 thread on an Avid forum, in which the author speaks glowingly of his DM3200:

http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=293796&page=2

You'll notice he mentions that he wishes he could control plugins.' Well - you CAN. Just check out Jamsire's incredible User Defined Layer and Midi controller videos. Tascam built some serious power into these boards.

Here's an announcement from somebody with an electronic (software?) based Linux studio incorporating a DM:

http://linuxaudio.org/mailarchive/laa/2010/3/3/166352

And for what it's worth, a couple of searches for 'SSL Matrix' yielded the same results - trade reviews, corporate overviews and hyperbole, videos, etc. I guess the users are just too busy to write about it.

RE: Time code: MTCode is communicated on USB3, selected in the Automation Menu. Next, you have to set up your DAW peripherals (devices) to communicate MTCode on USB3. However, before you do any of this, you need to decide where your time code originates - in the DAW or DM. Usually, when using the DM's mix automation, the DM sends time code to the DAW. But some apps like older Cubase versions will work in either direction.

If the DM3200 is sending time code, you'd select GENerate INternal in the DM's MMC menu, then set your DAW to receive MTC on USB3. If the DM is receiving MTC from the DAW, you'd DEselect GENerate Internal, ensuring that your DAW is sending code by setting up your devices accordingly. Obviously, you have to assign any other USB devices to work on channels other than USB3 or you'll get conflicts. USB1 is reserved as the default pathway for the TMCompanion.

There are some other details involved, but if you can this far, you've got most of it licked.

CaptDan

 

[Gravity Jim]

"User Defined Layer." Just that phrase should be enough to convince you that Tascam built the DM's to be digital boards for virtually any application.

 

[jamsire]

"User Defined Layer." Just that phrase should be enough to convince you that Tascam built the DM's to be digital boards for virtually any application.

Indeed!!

 

[waterstrum]

The DM continues to be the heart of my studio.
Great board!

 

[cmaffia]

The DM continues to be the heart of my studio.
Great board!

Same here! Don't let the sour grapes make you second guess yourself.

 

[Kurt Vandekerkhof]

Just another quick question.

Since I'm moving al my gear into my new room. I'm checking everything and plugging everything in and measuring the room acoustics.

But I noticed that the Tascam DM-3200 is giving off a continues high pitch tone. Not just when you're moving the faders, but continuously. I'm guessing this is either the power supply or some internal fan?
Am I the only one having this problem, or is this common with this (or any) digital desk?