Well, I think I know what he's asking, but I have completely missed this kind of thing before, so I took a shot and figured maybe somebody will gain something from my explanation (I guess I could be wrong about that, too 
).
).Stereo bus channels
- Thread starter Beermusic
- Start date
@skier @Arjan P @Peter Batah You guys are unbelievable with help, have gone from ITB to OTB in a mere few weeks thanks to all info on here. I realise perhaps the post was unclear. But hoping this thread will be of use to many like me who picked up a DM at the now peanuts prices to find a treasure trove of potential and music production feels real again.
My setup is drum kit, bass and guitar racks, several vox, several keys going into 1-16 and all good, going into to Logic and no issues. I am using 16 inputs, via firewire card 16 channels 1-16.
Then, back from Logic, I have layer 2 channels set up 17-32 to receive "tracks 1-16" that have just been recorded from the above inputs. All good.
Layer 3 of DM, i have 33-42 available and used for further Logic tracks, and 43-44 set up for the DM internal effects 1, and 45-46 setup for internal effects 2. DM channels 47 and 48 I have the Logic DAW mix (ie the mix of all dry recorded tracks via DM 1-16) coming back via the final two firewire slots 31 and 32. All is good.
I would think this would be a common setup if you want to use the DM in conjunction with a DAW in a singer songwriter type setup.
I am hearing audio via the DM ie the processed DM channels with the onboard FX, comp, EQ etc, on layer 2 and 3, and the DAW mix is available via channels 47 and 48 as above.
However, and apologies for previously confusing posts... the last cog in the wheel is as follows:
How to return the finished DM mix (ie what i can hear in the monitors with all onboard FX, EQ etc ) back to the DAW?
If I route the stereo mix back via the output slot on any 2 slot channels, this creates a feedback loop. For example, I select output slot, and set Stereo L and R output to channels 22 and 23, then in Logic create an audio track with input 22 and 23, the result is not what i am hearing via the monitors.
In other words, what is the correct way to route the Stereo Buss from the DM to a DAW so that you can bounce a mix. There are lots of threads on this but i cannot find a definite answer other than sending the mix out to an external recorder.
This really is the final missing cog in my works, and I really think will help other new users, so any thoughts are hugely appreciated = am hopeful the above is clearer than the original post!
My setup is drum kit, bass and guitar racks, several vox, several keys going into 1-16 and all good, going into to Logic and no issues. I am using 16 inputs, via firewire card 16 channels 1-16.
Then, back from Logic, I have layer 2 channels set up 17-32 to receive "tracks 1-16" that have just been recorded from the above inputs. All good.
Layer 3 of DM, i have 33-42 available and used for further Logic tracks, and 43-44 set up for the DM internal effects 1, and 45-46 setup for internal effects 2. DM channels 47 and 48 I have the Logic DAW mix (ie the mix of all dry recorded tracks via DM 1-16) coming back via the final two firewire slots 31 and 32. All is good.
I would think this would be a common setup if you want to use the DM in conjunction with a DAW in a singer songwriter type setup.
I am hearing audio via the DM ie the processed DM channels with the onboard FX, comp, EQ etc, on layer 2 and 3, and the DAW mix is available via channels 47 and 48 as above.
However, and apologies for previously confusing posts... the last cog in the wheel is as follows:
How to return the finished DM mix (ie what i can hear in the monitors with all onboard FX, EQ etc ) back to the DAW?
If I route the stereo mix back via the output slot on any 2 slot channels, this creates a feedback loop. For example, I select output slot, and set Stereo L and R output to channels 22 and 23, then in Logic create an audio track with input 22 and 23, the result is not what i am hearing via the monitors.
In other words, what is the correct way to route the Stereo Buss from the DM to a DAW so that you can bounce a mix. There are lots of threads on this but i cannot find a definite answer other than sending the mix out to an external recorder.
This really is the final missing cog in my works, and I really think will help other new users, so any thoughts are hugely appreciated = am hopeful the above is clearer than the original post!
Headroom
Veteran
Seems to me your problem is not in the DAW/Mix, but in the monitoring. You can route the mix to the DAW via slots, as long as you don't route it back to the stereo bus. So don't press the stereo button on ch 47 and 48. This avoids the feedback loop. For monitoring you use aux busses, ie aux 1/2, from ch 47/48. I do this in my setup with ch 63/64 (DM4800) as mentioned in my above post.
Arjan P
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1. Why do you send a (the?) DAW mix to the DM, if you also send the individual tracks from the DAW to the DM for mixing with EQ and FX? This is a recipe for feedback, see the following.
2. In your DAW, you want to record the returning DM stereo mix but you get feedback. This can be avoided by not monitoring the recording channels. I'm assuming you also have your channels 1-16 set up this way - otherwise you'd be hearing back what you're recording at that same moment (with latency). If the DAW only sends audio from playing tracks and not recording tracks, there can be no feedback loop.
I work almost the same way as you: Cubase sends playing tracks back to the DM, there is no monitoring of recording channels and I record the resulting final stereo mix from the DM (Stereo Out) through FW 31/32 back into the PC. The difference is that I record back into Wavelab, that also has FW 31/32 for playback from that DAW. Also in Wavelab, monitoring of recording channels is switched off. Hope this helps.
2. In your DAW, you want to record the returning DM stereo mix but you get feedback. This can be avoided by not monitoring the recording channels. I'm assuming you also have your channels 1-16 set up this way - otherwise you'd be hearing back what you're recording at that same moment (with latency). If the DAW only sends audio from playing tracks and not recording tracks, there can be no feedback loop.
I work almost the same way as you: Cubase sends playing tracks back to the DM, there is no monitoring of recording channels and I record the resulting final stereo mix from the DM (Stereo Out) through FW 31/32 back into the PC. The difference is that I record back into Wavelab, that also has FW 31/32 for playback from that DAW. Also in Wavelab, monitoring of recording channels is switched off. Hope this helps.
@Beermusic, you’re welcome for the help. The advice you’re getting from Headroom and Arjan is correct - the understanding problem we’re all having is that none of us know exactly what you want to do and why you’re doing what you’re doing. And if you previously read what I’m doing, I gave you some reasons, and it’s different from what others do. As I mentioned before, the DM is so flexible that we can all do almost any routing scheme we desire, BUT, we each do need to think about the settings of each control and where we’re sending signal because we can not only send it almost anywhere, we can also send it to multiple destinations; and that’s how unexpected feedback loops occur. Based on your fast learning curve and the fact you’ve been able to do so much on the DM in this short spate of time, it’s clear you know what you’re doing and why. But it’d help us more if you could be a little more specific as to why you are doing some things. So, some questions:
1. Are you mixing in the DAW (sounds like it)?
2. Are you doing some mixing in the DM also (might be)? If so, is that the best way to do it?
As for me, I like to only mix in one place, so I do it in the DAW. The only reason I make individual channels available back to the DM is for cue mixes and if I want to use some of the DM’s effects there. Because I don’t mix on the DM, my rule is that none of the channels coming back to the DM are placed on the Stereo bus – that’s what Headroom meant when he stated: “don't route it back to the stereo bus” - make sure that button for each of those channels coming back is off.
Again, as to how I use the DM, it’s my central routing hub for the whole studio instead of multiple patch panels like I used in the past. Signals initially go into the DM or first into a Focusrite pre and then into the DM. From there, everything goes into PT via Firewire for mixing, EQ, compression, effects, etc. The main return to the DM is the final mix which needs to go through one of my sets of speakers. I have my main monitors (NHT Pro A20s), a large and small set of stereo speakers fed by a home-grade stereo amp, some really lousy and cheap 2 inch computer speakers, and two different sets of headphones. I test all my mixes on all four sets and the headphones; if it sounds good on all of them, it sounds good on most everyone’s home and car systems as well as on headphones, earbuds, etc. Again, the only reason I send individual channels back to the DM is for cue mixes, and occasionally, to use the TC Works reverb, which I really like.
With one exception, none of my individual channels are placed on the DM’s Stereo bus because I’m not mixing on it. The one exception is my final mix coming from PT, because I need to send it to the monitor section to listen to my mix. I could instead use an Aux Send or two bus channels, but why? The Stereo Bus is otherwise unused.
So, there’s the method in my madness. What’s yours?
1. Are you mixing in the DAW (sounds like it)?
2. Are you doing some mixing in the DM also (might be)? If so, is that the best way to do it?
As for me, I like to only mix in one place, so I do it in the DAW. The only reason I make individual channels available back to the DM is for cue mixes and if I want to use some of the DM’s effects there. Because I don’t mix on the DM, my rule is that none of the channels coming back to the DM are placed on the Stereo bus – that’s what Headroom meant when he stated: “don't route it back to the stereo bus” - make sure that button for each of those channels coming back is off.
Again, as to how I use the DM, it’s my central routing hub for the whole studio instead of multiple patch panels like I used in the past. Signals initially go into the DM or first into a Focusrite pre and then into the DM. From there, everything goes into PT via Firewire for mixing, EQ, compression, effects, etc. The main return to the DM is the final mix which needs to go through one of my sets of speakers. I have my main monitors (NHT Pro A20s), a large and small set of stereo speakers fed by a home-grade stereo amp, some really lousy and cheap 2 inch computer speakers, and two different sets of headphones. I test all my mixes on all four sets and the headphones; if it sounds good on all of them, it sounds good on most everyone’s home and car systems as well as on headphones, earbuds, etc. Again, the only reason I send individual channels back to the DM is for cue mixes, and occasionally, to use the TC Works reverb, which I really like.
With one exception, none of my individual channels are placed on the DM’s Stereo bus because I’m not mixing on it. The one exception is my final mix coming from PT, because I need to send it to the monitor section to listen to my mix. I could instead use an Aux Send or two bus channels, but why? The Stereo Bus is otherwise unused.
So, there’s the method in my madness. What’s yours?
Peter Batah
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In reference to what @skier and others have stated:
"But it’d help us more if you could be a little more specific as to why you are doing some things"
A flowchart / diagram might not have been such a terrible idea. It would take but a few minutes to prepare. I for one, have always tried to include screenshots / photos whenever relevant / possible.
"But it’d help us more if you could be a little more specific as to why you are doing some things"
A flowchart / diagram might not have been such a terrible idea. It would take but a few minutes to prepare. I for one, have always tried to include screenshots / photos whenever relevant / possible.
