Tascam DM 4800, can I route more then two effects on a buss

[Rick Juniel]

I am a little new to the Tascam DM 4800, can I route more then two effects on a buss internal, (Example) a reverb a delay and De-esser.....or any other effects....

Thanks
RCK productions

 

[rbrezins]

I don't fully understand your question.
Your Tascam DM4800 has two internal FX processors. I have always used them in the classical way, send/return, so input via AUX and FX return to channels 33/34 and 35/36 (I own a DM3200).
You can route the returns everywhere you want, and to multiple channels or busses.

But that's not your question I guess

 

[Rick Juniel]

Thanks For your quick response, what I'm truly trying to say I know the tascam have two internal effects processor, can you have three separate effects going simultaneously like, a reverb and delay and De-esser.....or any other effects.... Route through the tascam internal some how.... Another example the Yamaha DM 2000 allow 8 different buses of effects internal to be route... Why have so many different effects available if you can only use two at a time.......

RCK Productions

 

[rbrezins]

In that case, the answer is easy.
No. DM3200/4800 has 2 FX processors, so you can use 2 effects in your mix.
IMHO the only flaw in this board, there should have been at least 4 FX processors, like the competition has.

When I mixed OTB in the past, I used 3x Yamaha ProR3, 1x SPX990, 1x TC M-One and a Digitech DSP256 as FX processors in my mixes, next to the two processors in the desk, mostly using the TC reverb (which sounds very good IMO).
Now I mix everything ITB with use of some outboard gear (SPL Charisma, ART Pro VLA, Yamaha ProR3, Sansamp RPM).

 

[captdan]

there should have been at least 4 FX processors, like the competition has.

Indeed. The DM3200 is essentially the same size as another, older competitive model made by The Company Of Crossed Tuning Forks. That board has - as you say - 4FX processors. So, why couldn't Tascam do the same thing?

My wild guesses:

When the 96khz version of The Tuning Fork Mixer was introduced, computer based DAWs were still finding their 'sea legs;' arguably more engineers were recording to outboard gear - ADAT recorders, etc. So, perhaps, there was greater perceived need for mixer based EFX because PC/Mac power at the time was limited, and plugins required a lot of CPU power.

By late 2005, when the DM series was introduced, DAWS, PCs and Macs had grown more powerful, and there were many more refined EFX plugins available. Along with the cost savings of limiting the DMs to only two internal efx, perhaps Tascam saw the writing on the wall - an emerging era where users would be accessing most of their DSP natively.

But, I really don't know. Just saying.

CaptDan

 

[rbrezins]

I have to say that my DM3200 is a huge step up from my DM24 (which I still use as location recording desk and sometimes even for live sound, but I prefer to use my Mackie TT24).

The "flaw" of having only 2 FX processors is made up by the fact that the DM3200/4800 have:
* Excellent automation, absolutely excellent. No Yamaha desk compares to this automation, or every other desk in the price range.
* Great sound quality, preamps and converters in this price range. Yamaha desks aren't comparable, quality wise IMO.
* Built in Mackie controller for DAW.
* The most flexible matrix DSP I've ever seen in a desk like this, any input to any output.
* Extreme flexibility with all in and outputs. Mine has 3x ADAT in/out, 3x TDIF in/out, 20x analog in. Perfect integration with my previous interface M-Audio Profire2626 and my current MOTU 2408.
* I can record with my 3 Alesis HD24 ADATs, can record to DAW.

With this board, everything is possible
Still loving it, although, I should have bought the DM4800. More channels

 

[captdan]

* Excellent automation, absolutely excellent. No Yamaha desk compares to this automation, or every other desk in the price range.
* Great sound quality, preamps and converters in this price range. Yamaha desks aren't comparable, quality wise IMO.
* Built in Mackie controller for DAW.
* The most flexible matrix DSP I've ever seen in a desk like this, any input to any output.
* Extreme flexibility with all in and outputs. Mine has 3x ADAT in/out, 3x TDIF in/out, 20x analog in. Perfect integration with my previous interface M-Audio Profire2626 and my current MOTU 2408.

Agreed on all counts. In a way, the DM is 'obsolete-proof.' Even if [insert DAW corporation here] introduces a Better Mousetrap, in all likelihood, the DM can still play a viable role - if only as a controller, routing matrix, or subsidiary tool.

CaptDan

 

[Arjan P]

I used 3x Yamaha ProR3, 1x SPX990, 1x TC M-One and a Digitech DSP256 as FX processors in my mixes

Funny, those are the exact outboard FX I still use, except not 3x but 1x ProR3, and not the DSP256, though I did use the DSP128 instead in my band..

 

[Jarno]

In matter of fact you should be able to introduce delay, reverb and de-esser (use DM's compresor with side-chaining) on your DM's single channel signal path with some routing magick.

But of course, in general, the answer is: no.

 

[Drumstruck]

You could use one effect as an insert then send the channel to the second effect either via auxilliary send/return or to a buss with an insert....

 

[captdan]

You'd still end up with only 2 efx - with one channel dedicated to a chosen effect.

FWIW: It's generally inadvisable to add a 'verb after a delay. Vice versa: better.

If you think this through, how many different efx would be added to a mix? There are:

-'Verbs (of various flavors, edited for particular voices and instruments)

-Delays (there are several - from Tap to Stereo)

-Gtr amp sims (don't get me started; most of the DM's sound like death warmed over)

-Phasers (boy can THOSE get old! )

-Special Efx ('doublers,' 'pitch benders' and other oddball things. Really? Are you doing cartoon soundtracks or filler for student sci-fi videos?)

-Those Other Things (sorry, I forget which ones. I don't use them).

Look - efx are really nice to have in the toolbox. But - in the First Aid Kit? Maybe that little extra 'whatsit' isn't really necessary. Could be you're just bored after hearing the mix 400 times.

Jes' sayin'. (Flamesuit on and running........)

CaptDan

 

[Arjan P]

It's generally inadvisable to add a 'verb after a delay. Vice versa: better.

Interesting, cause I never do otherwise - IF verb and delay are both wanted ofcourse. So much for 'rules', aye

 

[Rick Juniel]

Thanks a lot for your quick response that's what I thought and I truly appreciate each and everyone of you guys comments, and I must say I agree that the DM 4800 and the DM3200 are excellent boards they do pretty much everything you need them to do...


Thanks
RCK Productions

 

[captdan]

Interesting, cause I never do otherwise - IF verb and delay are both wanted of course. So much for 'rules', aye

I don't make the rules - I just en'FARCE' them.

Per my own taste: I've found placing a 'verb after a delay in the signal chain tends to muddy things up - particularly with a multi-tap or synchronized stereo delay. The 'delay tails are obscured by the 'verb. However - as you already know - sometimes adjusting the pre-delay and putting a low pass filter around 6-7kz in the 'verb mitigates that somewhat.
But I just would rather have the delay 2nd in the chain; makes things easier to control.

YMMV. Etc.

CaptDan

 

[JHTorch]

In that case, the answer is easy.
No. DM3200/4800 has 2 FX processors, so you can use 2 effects in your mix.
IMHO the only flaw in this board, there should have been at least 4 FX processors, like the competition has.

When I mixed OTB in the past, I used 3x Yamaha ProR3, 1x SPX990, 1x TC M-One and a Digitech DSP256 as FX processors in my mixes, next to the two processors in the desk, mostly using the TC reverb (which sounds very good IMO).
Now I mix everything ITB with use of some outboard gear (SPL Charisma, ART Pro VLA, Yamaha ProR3, Sansamp RPM).

Rbrezins: I'm new to the DM and still learning it but had posted the question a few days ago as to whether there would be any interest by DM users for a DM option card that could accommodate 3rd party plugs, ideally VST if possible to port, for maximum flexibility. I have yet to explore the processor and effects on the DM and I plan to use the DM mainly as a control surface and stick to my VST's. However, if I were mixing solely with the DM, I think I would find just 2 FX processors limiting.

For myself, on a typically rock mix, I usually use a separate reverb for the drums, the lead vox, backup vocals if any and guitars. Plus I will sometimes have a low level reverb for the overall mix for a live feel and "glue." When I was strictly hardware, I used to print my reverbs & effects to tape to free up my Lexicons and other hardware.

 

[Drumstruck]

The DM FX are the ones I use when all my outboard is already in use... i.e. not my go-to FX, but handy to have.

Rather than an option card, I'd like to see a way to use plugs via the TDIF ports - it's sad to see 24 ports sitting there unused

 

[captdan]

if I were mixing solely with the DM, I think I would find just 2 FX processors limiting.

I just don't comprehend this argument. I mix out of the box with the DM, have access to eq, dynamics and up to two processors onboard the mixer, along with a boatload of efx, 'verbs, eq plugs for inserts and auxes in ProTools. And that's not counting a huge array of RTAS instruments (or VSTs if that's what you speak.) Additionally, I've got another 10 mastering plugs, including about 15 different 'verbs if I need to add any 'space' in the files at the back end. That's a ginormous toolbox of efx.

So, as nice as it may be to have more efx onboard the DM (and if you can get 'em - more power to all of us), I don't feel at all limited in my workflow. On the contrary; compared to where I was at a decade ago - I almost have TOO much.

But that's just me.

YMMV.

CaptDan