The Dreaded Insert Effects Question

[Jerzy]

Hello again all. Thanks so much for the help just after I got my new DP24, especially to Phil who was awesome and patient with a Mastering question. Well I have to say the unit is fantastic and sounds perfect, so "studio quality". My problem I am sure had a simple explanation. When I am Mixing down and using the Insert Effect, I go to the Mixer control for a channel and turn on the Insert Effect button. My send and return is set where I want it. I hear my effect ( example: Delay). I then go to another channel to turn on the same Insert effect and as soon as I do, the first channel Insert Effect is now OFF. This happens with the internal Insert Effect AND when I use an external effector, even when I assign it to the stereo bus. What am I doing wrong or what is going on. I really just want to use the same Insert Effect on multiple channels. Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Phil Tipping]

Don't get confused with the 3 different FX functions - there are Insert (Dynamics), Insert (Guitar) and Send. Send levels on the Mixer screen only apply to the Send functions so these setting have no relevance to the Insert FX.
I know I keep banging on about the usefulness of the block diagram, but this is one case where it fails - it doesn't show the machine/firmware restriction for the no. of FX in use at any one time, e.g. once you allocate an Insert FX to a track, it cannot be allocated to another track. If you try and do this, the original track allocation will turn off, which is what you're finding. I may have misunderstood this so please correct me if it's wrong.
If you want the same FX function for multiple channels, use the Send FX functions, not Insert FX. Set the Send levels for each track in the Mixer screen. Same goes for external FX via the Send outputs.
If you really want an Insert FX on multiple tracks (e.g. compressor) you could bounce the tracks one by one with that Insert FX allocated - a bit tedious but can't think of another way. hth.

 

[Jerzy]

OK Phil. So if I use Send Effect 2 and send the signal to an external effector then bring it back in and assign the return signal to the Stereo bus can I send multiple channels through the external effector and get multiple channels to return with say a delay effect that way?

 

[Phil Tipping]

Yes, you can send any/all of the tracks to either of the two Sends. If you use Send-1 that 'mix' of tracks will go to both Output-1 and the internal Send FX unit. If you use Send-2, it just goes to Output-2. Note both internal & external send levels are controlled by the global Master levels set in the Mixer screen.
You control how much internal/external FX comes back into the system via the respective return levels. If you want to use Send-1 for external FX only, just turn the internal Send FX off or turn down its return level in the Effects screen. By the way, there is a delay function on the internal Send FX so you don't necessarily have to use an external unit.

 

[Jerzy]

Correct but then I need to use the external FX for reverb I think if I need 2 different FX. So if I choose output 2 for my external FX and send it back through the stereo bus then I can set the levels via each mixer channel from the send and master controls for that channel? At this point am I still able to use Send FX on Send 1 for each channel and control it with the send and master controls in the Mixer for each channel with the Send 1 controls? Thanks Phil. You are a lifesaver.

 

[Phil Tipping]

Yes & yes; the sends are independent. Glad it's all working out.

 

[Jerzy]

Phil. Thanks so much. It worked fine but my external effects unit is a Zoom and it sounds pretty bad. Do you have any experience with external FX units. I think the quality of this unit is weak. The internal delays on the DP24 sound good hut have their track limitations. Do you think a higher quality unit will sound better and do the job for me? Thanks by the way for all of your advice so far.

 

[Phil Tipping]

Well that's a loaded question Have a look at other forums and you'll see how subjective it is. Obviously price will come into it, so would you consider 2nd hand? Do you want general purpose FX or is it just the reverb which is weak? Do you want FX which are easy to edit or would you prefer choosing from a list of presets? My best sounding general purpose unit is a Lexicon MPX1, but the menu system always throws me as it seems unintuitive. There are other models above and below this price-wise and some people swear by Lexicon, others hate them! Eventide do a nice range... if your pockets are deep enough! I picked up a 2nd hand Helicon VoiceWorks recently and was surprised to find a really nice reverb in its FX section. Bottom line is I've not tried many, so set your price and ask around. Magazines such as SoundOnSound are handy for older reviews as their content is free to browse online. Good luck.

 

[Brian Cooney]

Phil.. btw thanks so much for your online tutorials they have been so very helpful. My question, what's the point of the insert fx button. I mean why wouldn't i just not use it and have the option to assign the effects to more than one channel or shut them off per channel? thanks.

 

[Phil Tipping]

Thanks for the kind words Brian. Do you mean the Insert FX 'button' in the mixer screen?

 

[Brian Cooney]

Hi Phil! Yes.

 

[Brian Cooney]

what I mean is.. if I depress that button i'm limited to FX assigned just to that channel right? Why would anyone want to do that when they can just assign those fx to that channel anyway.. and others? so i was just tryign to get behind the logic of that. maybe I'm missing soemthing. i have to pop out.. but i'll check back. thanks again.

 

[Phil Tipping]

The mixer screen shows settings for only one item at a time, and this is shown at the top-right of the screen.
The 'insert fx' box shows which of the 2 types of insert effects are inserted into that path - dynamic or guitar. The problem is these 2 types behave in completely different ways.

When the top-right indicator shows an Input A-H, the box shows & controls the dynamic insert effect for that input path. That's the only type of insert effect you can use with inputs. There are 8 separate dynamic effects so you can have a different effect (or the same but with different settings) inserted into each of the 8 inputs.

When the indicator shows a track 1-24/32, the box shows & controls the guitar insert effect for that track path. That's the only type of insert effect you can use with tracks. The difference with this is that there is only one guitar effect on these machines, so it can only be inserted into one track at any one time. If the box is lit, the effect is inserted into that track. If you select a different track, the box will be unlit. If you then click the box, it will light up to show you've now inserted the guitar effect into the newly selected track... but it will be removed from the original track.

Note this box is just an alternative way of inserting & removing insert effects. It's the same as using the respective effect screens, visible by pressing the Dynamic or Effect buttons. Just be aware of the 'gotcha' (shown in the videos) when using this 'insert fx' box for inserting dynamic effects, although they may have fixed it with firmware - I haven't checked recently.
Not sure if this answers your question.