Tip to get more than 1 mixdown without USB connected (DP -32 etc.)

[klink]

Had this buried in another thread of mine but thought it worthy of promotion to its own thread -

I think I've found a crafty new way of making more than one mixdown file (on DP-32 etc.) which doesn't need a computer connected - do mixdown 1 as normal then change the song title (from the song menu page) by one character (for example change song01 to pong01) - do mixdown 2, change the song title by one character again (make it say kong01 or anything you like as long as it is different from before) - do mixdown 3 etc. etc. All these files then appear as separate mixdowns when you either connect to a computer via USB or by removing the SD card from the DP - simple!

You can't switch between these mixdowns in the DP itself but of course you can on your computer to choose the best mix or possibly to comp 1 perfect mix in your audio editor from several different mixes. Before someone asks - I'm not sure but I think if you change the name again just before using the mastering effects this still overwrites the mixdown you're mastering (in other words 'song04' changed to 'tong04' after mixing down still produces a mastered file called 'song04' I think - more experimentation needed).

 

[Phil Tipping]

I was waiting for the results of "more experimentation needed" before commenting, but meanwhile thanks for sharing If you rename the song back again, can you preview your mixdowns?
There was a discussion re. renaming songs some time ago, but seem to remember it wasn't reliable... but that may have been when mastering.

 

[-mjk-]

Personally, since one has to stop and use the menu to change the Song name, I don't see any advantage over just using the menu to open the USB port and copy the Mixdown file to the PC before overwriting the file with subsequent mixes. As the OP stated, one cannot switch between these Mixdown files within the machine, so listening to the various mixes requires one to use the PC anyway. That being said, if a user wants to work this way, then by all means, do it.

 

[Mark Richards]

I typically follow the process described by mj. But I can see where some may want to use this process to create multiple masters quickly, requiring only one final step to transfer all the easily identified masters at once. One more interesting way of getting the job done.

 

[klink]

Mjk - yes, probably not much of an advantage over the USB method except I reckon it’s probably quicker and, if you’re like me & don’t have a computer permanently connected to multitrack, it’ll probably be the best way to do it. I’m a newbie with the DP admittedly & at the moment I’m trying to replicate my way of working with my old Zoom HD16 which had 10 virtual master tracks. I would mix a song until I messed up, then mix another one from the messed up section to say, the middle 8, then a bit more etc. until I had enough perfect mix bits to edit it all together seamlessly on my PC editing program.

Which of course will bring me to another problem on the DP - how to do partial mixes starting from say, the middle of the song (change the in point obviously) but for this then to appear as 2 minute space then chorus starts playing when viewed in my audio editing software (which when locked to the song’s tempo let’s me edit way easier than without tempo info). I’m guessing with the Tascam it wouldn’t have this space at the beginning if I change the in point? Anyway, this is probably just my problem so enough said on that for now. It’s back to the basics for me to learn how to use this exciting new piece of kit! Thanks for the comments all!

 

[-mjk-]

@klink I hear you. I don't think it actually does anything bad to work that way, but see below.

I describe a method for mixing mixes in this thread about 1/2 way down the page:

http://www.tascamforums.com/threads/share-dp-24-32-sd-production-tips.5747/#post-29234

I seem to recall that renaming songs that have Mastered files changes the system files so you can't go back and play the Master files later. Works in reverse too. Using the computer to change the name of the mastered Mixdown file and then turning the machine back on (or exiting USB mode), will change the system file so that even if you change the song Mixdown filename back, you still cannot play it on the DP machine.

That being said, I do not know if the same situation stands true for a Mixdown file that is not Mastered. But, if one was going to make an edited file created from clips of other files, you probably would not want to master it until it's completely finished anyway.

 

[klink]

Yeah, my usual workflow once I've got my (unmastered) mixes on my PC is that they then stay in the computer for comping together a best mix, then mastering is also done on the computer. So returning them to the DP for playback would not be a problem for me but it possibly would be for others, who'd have to import the files back to the DP if they wanted to hear them or master them I guess.

Meant to say thanks to Phil Tipping for all the videos - very informative (almost put me off buying a DP-32 as you point out the flaws as well as the good bits). I'll have to consider purchasing your written manual sometime although my DP is the 32 with MIDI not the SD (yep, I realise they're more or less the same but I'm interested in the MIDI side of things for automated mixes in conjunction with a sequencer). And thanks to all others for all the hints & tips on this forum - it's a great read!

 

[-mjk-]

@klink I also have the DP-32 and every single piece of gear in my studio is MIDI capable and connected. I've played around with using it as a DAW control surface and this is possible with Sonor, and I'm sure other DAW systems. I've had no success in recording mixing moves to software, for mix automaton on the DP-32 however. It seems more suitable for recording automation envelopes on a DAW. As a result of my experiments, I've gone a totally different route and now use the DP-32 exclusively for recording tracks, and I mix with another system.

If I may suggest, the MIDIPlus family of interfaces are very good. I have the 4x4 and I use Miditrix to soft patch devices together. Works great.

 

[Mark Richards]

I seem to recall that renaming songs that have Mastered files changes the system files so you can't go back and play the Master files later.

You're right mj.
I adjusted my post accordingly.
Each time a master .wav file is created during Mixdown/Master mode, the song.sys file in the song folder is updated to reflect the song's current name, so it's not possible to load the previous mix version by simply renaming the song again. The song.sys file will always look for the most current version of the song's name as reflected after the most recent mixdown.

 

[-mjk-]

Each time a master .wav file is created during Mixdown/Master mode, the song.sys file in the song folder is updated to reflect the current song's name, so it's not possible to load the previous mix version. The song.sys file will always look for the most current version of the song's name.

That being said, as long as the user knows this going forward with this workflow, there's no reason to not do it if one wants to create different mixes. You simply lose the ability to review and further process those files unless you import them back into the machine.

 

[Phil Tipping]

Don't forget you can use bouncing to create multiple mixes which can be reviewed & comp'd on the machine. The drawback is that only the faders can be moved during the bounce, as opposed to eq, fx, send etc controls, but if that's ok, you can have as many mixes as you have stereo tracks (times 8 for virtual tracks) without needing a computer or renaming... and you don't need the IN/OUT points setting up so can mix partial sections without worrying about gaps.

 

[klink]

Thanks Phil, that was one of the things I’d seen in your videos that almost put me off the DP. I do tend to do a bit of panning & fx send work in my mixes but bounce would be fine for more static mixes I guess. This is the first machine I’ve come across where you can’t move these controls around when bouncing which is a bit odd but it is what it is.

Mjk - I think I’ll be a bit disappointed if I can’t get some kind of midi automated mix going with a sequencer as on paper it looks like the DP can both transmit and receive midi controller messages for faders, eq, pan etc. (whereas the 2488 only had receive implemented). But I’m way off trying that out at the moment. Anyone else tried and got good results?

 

[-mjk-]

@klink Yes, virtually every knob and fader on the machine outputs MIDI. To my knowledge, no one has ever done this yet. As I said before, I was able to get the DP-32 to operate as a channel control surface with Sonar. Theoretically, any DAW that has a learning function can learn the MIDI controls that the DP 32 outputs for whatever function. There are threads in this forum about using the older machines as control services and I suggest you read them .

As an experiment, I recorded MIDI transmit messages from my Behringer X32, played them back, and the console responded. It was problematic, and I wasn't able to actually use it for automation. But, I did not try that with the DP-32, and that's because at the time I didn't have anything that would reliably record those MIDI moves and had already decided to purchase another console to use for mixing . However, Reaper will record MIDI, so I recommend that you try recording a MIDI track with Reaper and then playing it back and synchronizing the DP-32 with Reaper. As long as as MIDI messages are being received by the DP-32, it will respond to them.

The whole point of a mixing automation system is for one to be able to incrementally make small adjustments to the mix to move closer to perfection. Since the DP-32 does not have moving faders, they won't be in sync. In order to make changes to the recorded automation, you would have to punch in record them, and that's where the problem lies. As soon as you punch in you'll be recording the positions of your faders which will be out of sync. Having mixed records using console automation on all the major brands of consoles, I can tell you from experience that operating in the way I just described will be a major thrash. If your heart is set on using the DP-32 as a control surface, I suggest that you export all the files and then import them to Reaper where you can use the controls on the DP-32 to write automation envelopes in Reaper that can be edited in Reaper. The difficulty is automating the DP-32 in order to use its audio engines for mixing. The control surface implementation is relatively easy in comparison.

This is exactly why I'm working with Patrick-Gilles Maillot on a full-featured professional level mixing automation system for the X32/M32 console series.

 

[klink]

Thanks mjk - some good info there.

 

[lastmonk]

Or you could just copy the song to a new song with a different name using the menu command
Now you have two copies of the same song.
You can mix them individually. End result: same song, different mixes.
Rinse and repeat.

No computer needed.