Using DM3200 effects

[restblue]

I am new to using the DM3200 and Pro Tools 10. We are trying to use the DM and Pro Tools to record our rehearsals. I am able to get live sounds out of the DM through the stereo outs and also am able to record the instruments and vocals in pro tools. However I am trying to figure out how to use the DM's internal effects. I would like to add some reverb to the live outputs without adding the effect to the pro tools recording. Like some others, the routing on the DM is somewhat confusing to me. Any help would be appreciated. I have tried to read through many of the posts on this forum but I fear I am too much not a novice to fully get a grasp on this.

 

[captdan]

Welcome.

If you look in your DM's library presets, you'll see a template called 'Basic Tracking.' This setup routes the internal efx to Aux3/4 and Aux 5/6. Aux 1/2 is dedicated for headphone mix sends.

CAUTION! Do NOT call up this preset before you've saved whatever setup you currently have to a SEPARATE FILE! Otherwise, that template will overwrite ALL the routing you now have.

After you've saved your parameters, call up that 'Basic Tracking' template. Study HOW and WHERE the efx are auxed, and where the RETURNS are located. Look in the Routing menus to study where/how the elements are routed. If need be, take some SCREEN SHOTS of the specific menus using TMCompanion's Screen Shot feature. Then save those .PNG shots so you'll have a permanent visual reference.

Once the Efx are routed to their Auxes and Sends, hit the 'Effects' button to call up the menus. There are numerous presets in the 'verb/delay libraries. Pick a few and audition them. The channels you wish to send to those efx are accessed in their individual MODULE AUX screens. There are 'dials' in those screens to increase/decrease the amount of signal sent to those efx.

After you get your head around the default setup in that template, you'll be able to set up your own routing, perhaps using different Auxes and Sends. If you have a manual, you should read the section on EFX routing as well.

Hope this helps get you started.

CaptDan

 

[Jarno]

Since I have never used any presets of my DM, I can't comment Dan's post, but ...
... I'm bit confused, because usually the question is "how to record DM's effects", not the other way around

But anyway ... basic setup for simultaneous live/recording is to define two signal paths, one for PA and one for recording.

My recommendation is:
1. Do whatever you want to get the live sound you need (here follow Dan's advice on how to use FX, if you didn't get it, please ask detail).
2. Use INPUT BYPASS routing to record individual inputs to separate tracks on your DAW (again, please ask details, if needed.
With this approach NOTHING you do with your DM during the live performance affects the recording. Recording is just a carbon-copy of what was fed into DM.

 

[restblue]

Thanks CaptDan and Jarno. I will try your suggestions at this weekend's rehearsal and report back either with success or more questions.

 

[captdan]

Jarno's message is more detailed in terms of recording. Indeed - the INPUT BYPASS method is almost always preferred for several reasons, not the least of which is, no matter what you do to a channel - levels, eq, efx, dynamics - none of those will be 'printed' to your DAW (Ptools.) In other words, you'll be affecting only the stereo buss monitor, while your tracks go down 'dry.'

There are several older posts about this approach; if you do a search for 'Input Bypass' you should find them.

CaptDan

 

[Darryn]

Hello again Captdan, I slowly getting the hang of this board, but still a novice really.
Im trying to add my internal effects to some already recorded tracks myself. But in my library folder i do not have the 'Basic Tracking' preset on my Dm3200. Can you show me another way?

 

[captdan]

That 'basic tracking' preset is virtually useless to the DIY producer. It essentially duplicates the old school 'In-Line' method where an equal number of returns service the same number of sends. In other words, if you're live-tracking a big - band and have all 16 inputs dedicated, then it follows you'd want 16 straight fader modules with which to control those inputs.

You should check out this video - Part 1 of using DM efx. Check out Part 2 as well:

CaptDan

 

[jamsire]

These were cool. Lengthy, but clear. I use the internal effects, external effects through my three analog cards routed through the 24 busses (neat trick), and the available auxes in the back through more external effects (as needed) through a patch bay. Quite the sexy.

 

[Tuviel]

Good video. Thanks for posting. But I'm curious as to why all the videos and literature I've seen so far shows the user assigning Aux sends in pairs? In other words why send for example Aux 3/4 and 5/6 (in stereo "pairs") when you can just send Aux 3 (mono) and Aux 4 (mono) and then just bring the returns back on stereo channels? Isn't this a waste of auxes?

 

[Headroom]

That depends on the effect you are using. I feed reverb and echo in mono, return stereo. Sounds ok. But when I do the same with distortion, i.c. on a guitar, the effect returns only on one (the left) channel.

 

[captdan]

Yes; the returns' pan trajectories are fully adjustable. But efx like verb and delay don't sound right (phasing artifacts, etc) unless they're treated as stereo images (adjacent stereo channels) - which can then be tailored for the sources going into them. The width can be narrowed all the way to mono, and/or panned left/right/reversed to suit.



CaptDan

 

[Tuviel]

@Headroom So on the DM you can't create a mono effect send (distortion in this case) and have it return in mono - panned wherever you want in the stereo field? Did I understand your post correctly?


@captdan I'm confused about this too CaptDan. Please forgive me for all the questions. What happens if you send the effect out mono (L ch only) then return it to the DM in mono (L ch only). Do you still get phasing & artifacts? If so this is very different that doing the same on an analog desk.

 

[captdan]

How is it different than with an analog desk? If - say - you're using an Amek Angela (analog) and a Lexicon PCM91, and you've chosen a stereo reverb as the effect, then only employ one side of that effect, you run the risk of 'strangeness' or lack of depth. Reverbs and delays operate in a stereo fashion - unless a summed mono representation is taken from that and combined with the original signal - or - a specific effect tailored for Mono is used.

The only way to know how that plays out is to hit the MONO button and listen for phasing or cancellation of the effect. Since not all 'verbs are the same (they can be drastically edited for I/R, tails, width, etc) you could conceivably utilize only one side of the effect and achieve the sonic character desired.

Like the those old adult diapers, it just 'Depends.'

CaptDan

 

[Tuviel]

Ok. I see what you are saying now. In your first post it wasn't totally clear you were referring to strictly stereo FX. Yes, you can sometimes loose depth if you only use one channel for the return but if you only grab the one channel (left) and bring that back up on the desk there should be no phase issues at all. Not all sources require a stereo reverb. I just started playing with this more after chatting with couple of A-list mixers who do this often. I hear it works really well for certain sources and frees up space in the mix. Just want to be sure these methods apply on the DM as well. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Arjan P]

I sometimes use mono reverb with the dry signal panned to one side and the wet reverb to the other side. Percussive sounds for instance; sounds cool! And for the record - the DM3200 is perfectly capable of sending out 4x mono ASN out and 4x mono in.

 

[Headroom]

@ Tuviel:
That is not wat I meant. My effect returns go to two pairs of channels, one channel of each pair panned to the left, the other to the right. Since distortion returns only on one channel, I heard that just on the left side. But you can pan that channel to any position in the field.

Some effects have the input type options mono(left) or stereo. Distortion only has mono. The reverbs have both. I could not any difference between input type mono and input type stereo (with signal on both inputs), so I use mono send on my internal effects and save two aux's for other purposes.

 

[Tuviel]

@Headroom - yes understood now.

 

[Tuviel]

Just wanted to say that it's pretty easy to change the aux send type from stereo to mono from the Effects page. Other than having a "true" stereo source I can't see any reason to use auxes with stereo sends since they are fairly limited on the DM 3200.

 

[captdan]

Since there are allegedly 'no rules' in recording, I can't comment on whether this is a good or bad idea. I suppose it really has to do with the individual mix and what you're dealing with.

Here's where I'm at about it: If I have a mono source which is the primary element in a mix (lead instrument, VOX, etc) I prefer to aux a verb and/or delay (if required) as a stereo effect. This allows me to tailor the center/mid/side image of the overall character of that track.

If I have a stereo keyboard source, same deal. However, I might (and often DO) adjust the stereo image of that source to sit better in the mix, employ a band pass filter, or change some of the aspects of the effect to play better with the source (I/R, tail, Hi/Lo pass, E/R, etc etc). In other words, there are so many ways to adjust the various parameters, using a Mono send is usually - for me - a last resort.

But again - it really depends on what else is going on, including how many outboard hardware efx are being employed.

CaptDan

 

[Tuviel]

@captdan,

I think you misunderstood my post? You can still adjust the stereo return on the effect. There is no difference in information when sending a mono source to a stereo reverb/delay using one aux or two.

If you used two auxes you are just sending the same info to both L/R channels which ultimately will get processed in stereo, same as if you sent a mono aux send. That's why some units label the left input channel as "L/mono".

If it's a true stereo source, meaning it has different information on the left and right channels or it was miked in stereo, then it would make a difference to the stereo output.